TVM didn't ask for PIN

[maniacmartin]

I just bought a ticket from a London Overground TVM. This wasn't a ToD, but normal purchase. I have a UK-issued American Express that supports Chip+PIN, and every time I've previously used it in a Chip+PIN reader, I need to enter my PIN, unless I'm using contactless.

Today the Chip+PIN reader just said 'Remove card' and issued the tickets without prompting for a PIN. My receipt says "SWIPED" (ie it wasn't processed as a Chip+PIN transaction)

I'm wondering if this was caused by a tech problem such as a bit of dirt on the chip? In the past when the card reader hasn't worked at TVMs, I've been prompted by the machine to remove my card then reinsert it to try again, which has worked. It's odd that that didn't happen in this case.

 

[londonboi]

I haver noticed this recently with a lot of tourists cards when helping them purchase tickets from machines. They pop the card into the slot wait about 2 seconds then tells them to remove the card and issues their tickets. This I thought was really worrying as if someone lost their card where is the protection from fraudulent use.

I looked into this online and apparantly there is only a limited amount available to spend a day using this method If I remember correctly was approx 20pounds

I prefer the chip and pin however

 

[island]

Just means the chip hasn't read for whatever reason. If your card works normally elsewhere it is probably a fault with that TVM.

 

[quarella]

If you are concerned contact American Express to be sure your card has not been compromised. I have found them very helpful when I have contacted them.

 

[David Goddard]

Sounds like it read the magstripe instead of the chip. The risk therefore lies with the TOC.

 

[34D]

Sounds like it read the magstripe instead of the chip. The risk therefore lies with the TOC.

AutOOmated machines elsewhere have a manual pad fr a signature.

 

[richw]

I looked into this online and apparantly there is only a limited amount available to spend a day using this method If I remember correctly was approx 20pounds

I prefer the chip and pin however

Limit by this method is £20 between each pin entry I believe rather than a daily limit

 

[maniacmartin]

I looked into this online and apparantly there is only a limited amount available to spend a day using this method If I remember correctly was approx 20pounds

Do you have a source for this? The only limits I know of for credit cards are:

• the offline transaction limit. Unless the TVM had lost its link to the bank then this was an online transaction. Are you suggesting that the offline transaction limit is higher for swipe transactions than Chip+PIN? I doubt that. Also, for credit cards (as opposed to some debit cards) this limit is much higher than £20, as all Avantix Mobile transactions are done offline.
• a limit for contactless payments of around £20. I don't think TVMs support contactless payments

 

[sonic2009]

Sounds like it read the magstripe instead of the chip. The risk therefore lies with the TOC.

AutOOmated machines elsewhere have a manual pad fr a signature.

I've never seen one like this? Where are they located?

 

[Daniel]

Do you have a source for this? The only limits I know of for credit cards are:

• the offline transaction limit. Unless the TVM had lost its link to the bank then this was an online transaction. Are you suggesting that the offline transaction limit is higher for swipe transactions than Chip+PIN? I doubt that. Also, for credit cards (as opposed to some debit cards) this limit is much higher than £20, as all Avantix Mobile transactions are done offline.
• a limit for contactless payments of around £20. I don't think TVMs support contactless payments

London Underground ticket machines do have a £20 limit for 'swipe' transactions per day. You can use a non-chip and pin card at a ticket machine as long as the transaction is less than £20, and if you try to use it a second time it will be declined. Whether or not this will be changed in the wake of the proposed ticket office closures, we'll see.

 

[maniacmartin]

I went to London Overground, and my card has a chip.

This £20 limit appears to be LU-imposed, as other merchants have no problem swiping for large transactions

 

[IanXC]

I went to London Overground, and my card has a chip.

This £20 limit appears to be LU-imposed, as other merchants have no problem swiping for large transactions

I suppose that does make sense - if a merchant uses the mag stripe when they could have used c+p then they carry the fraud risk. Presumably LU have decided £20 is as much risk as they want to carry - I wouldn't have thought much is that expensive on their TVMs anyway?

 

[richw]

Do you have a source for this? The only limits I know of for credit cards are:

• the offline transaction limit. Unless the TVM had lost its link to the bank then this was an online transaction. Are you suggesting that the offline transaction limit is higher for swipe transactions than Chip+PIN? I doubt that. Also, for credit cards (as opposed to some debit cards) this limit is much higher than £20, as all Avantix Mobile transactions are done offline.
• a limit for contactless payments of around £20. I don't think TVMs support contactless payments

Offline limit is irrelevant as pin is entered.
In this occurrence it was swiped but no signature therefore it is treated in an identical manner to a contactless payment and similar limits apply. No signature nor pin required.

 

[IanXC]

Offline limit is irrelevant as pin is entered.

A transaction doesn't have to be online just because a pin has been used, offline limits are relevant to offline transactions regardless of the method the cardholder uses to authorise the transaction.

In this occurrence it was swiped but no signature therefore it is treated in an identical manner to a contactless payment and similar limits apply. No signature nor pin required.

Contactless payments work to a different (relatively new) set of scheme rules. Swiped transactions are the riskiest for retailers, where the rules have been rewritten to leave all the liability with the retailer, and are in no way treated in an identical manner - for instance no part of the scheme rules impose any limit to a swiped transaction - it is for the retailer to decide.

 

[island]

AutOOmated machines elsewhere have a manual pad fr a signature.

This is not common in the UK.

As for limits on swiped transactions for chip cards, these would be at the retailer's discretion as their acquiring bank can make them take full liability for any contested transaction with no comeback.