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Tunnel Widening: Transpennine

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Tio Terry

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Following on the the tunnel widening thread (didn't want to highjack it). What are the chances and potential issues of widening the Transpennine tunnels? Any foreseeable problems with that area?

Original thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tunnel-resizing-is-it-possible.196493/

You would need to rebuild the tunnels to meet the requirements of the Safety in Tunnels TSI. This includes the provision of a continuous walkway at the side of the train to allow emergency evacuation of a train, including the ability to use wheelchairs for PRM evacuation. There may be other issues with ventilation, I don’t know enough about the tunnels in question.
 

Spartacus

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For those at Standedge the main problem is probably that there's 4 tunnels in close proximity, all interlinked.

With 4 tracking east of Huddersfield I don't really think there's much need for the two extra tunnels, these days when freight is fairly slim and moves at speeds much more comparable to passengers services than it used to do anyway the extra capacity is needed where there are stations more than anything.
 

hwl

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Worth pointing out that many traditional rail tunnels aren't a circular structure that you might associate with LU's deep tube tunnels but horseshoe cross-sectioned and the easy solution often involves lowering the track bed but that often involves strengthening the bottom end of the horseshoe or going for slab track so the track is lower but the ballast + sub base layer effectively becomes far thinner. The drainage will often need to be reconstructed with lowering

e.g.:

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/southampton-tunnel-works-finished-a-year-early


https://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/documents/rehabilitation-victorian-railway-tunnel-crossrail/
 

matacaster

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For those at Standedge the main problem is probably that there's 4 tunnels in close proximity, all interlinked.

With 4 tracking east of Huddersfield I don't really think there's much need for the two extra tunnels, these days when freight is fairly slim and moves at speeds much more comparable to passengers services than it used to do anyway the extra capacity is needed where there are stations more than anything.

Part of the reason freight is slim is the restricted loading gauge, principally due to the tunnels en route. Slightly off-topic, the incline which peaks at Standedge is probably the place where electrification would have greatest benefit including green credentials.
 

edwin_m

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Part of the reason freight is slim is the restricted loading gauge, principally due to the tunnels en route. Slightly off-topic, the incline which peaks at Standedge is probably the place where electrification would have greatest benefit including green credentials.
The width of British trains is mainly restricted by platforms. There are some other structures that could (with lots of time and money) be moved further from the track, but setting the platforms back would lead to a dangerous gap for people boarding and alighting. It would need all the trains on a route to be equipped with moveable steps to bridge the gap, then all platforms to be re-built in new positions, also re-building other parts of the station if the platforms would otherwise be dangerously narrow. There would also be the issue of the tracks being too close together for wider trains - increasing the spacing involves re-building almost everything. All in all it would take decades and cost billions and it just isn't going to happen.

Increasing the height, typically only at the sides where the square tops of containers stick out, isn't always straightforward but it's nothing compared to increasing the width, particularly at platform level. Those routes where the gauge has been suitably enhanced can handle all the standard container widths.

It means we have a different solution from the Continent where all containers fit without loading gauge improvement, but where we have done that work we can handle containers reasonably well. British intermodal wagons could run through to the Continent if they needed to but they usually don't because most containers, being intermodal, are transferred to a ship instead. The only thing that's easy on the Continent and virtually impossible in the UK is carrying road trailers, although again I think the problem is height rather than width.
 
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AM9

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Part of the reason freight is slim is the restricted loading gauge, principally due to the tunnels en route. Slightly off-topic, the incline which peaks at Standedge is probably the place where electrification would have greatest benefit including green credentials.
The current freight structure gauges are determined predominately by the 2.44m width of ISO containers which accounts for most payloads and is a global standard, although 2.5m wide containers are becoming more common on international freight. The height of the structure gauge needed depends on the height of the containers: 2.6m (standard) or 2.9m (hi-cube), which means that any arched profiles need the width at the top of the containers. W10 is the minimum UK gauge that can handle all 2.5m wide loads on standard flat wagons. If a tunnel is being rebored or built from new then the wider W12 gauge would normally be specified. This can accommodate the latest 2.6m wide containers that are being introduced mainly by Pacific shipping lines.
 

Legolash2o

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Thanks for the detailed explanations. Personally if I was going to re-bore these tunnels, I'd think about GC gauge clearance. Cost a fortune though...

Couldn't one solution be to lower platform heights for the widths? Obviously the train would need to be lowered. I don't imagine they would replace all trains with lower ones (due to wasteful cost and lack of business case).
 

edwin_m

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Thanks for the detailed explanations. Personally if I was going to re-bore these tunnels, I'd think about GC gauge clearance. Cost a fortune though...

Couldn't one solution be to lower platform heights for the widths? Obviously the train would need to be lowered. I don't imagine they would replace all trains with lower ones (due to wasteful cost and lack of business case).
That would probably be worse from an accessibility point of view than cutting platforms back. It's possible to imagine a gap filler fitted at each door to cope with a variable horizontal gap (and indeed Merseyrail will have these) a vertical gap inevitably implies a step. A ramp can just about cope with the current height differences of around 200mm but any lower and the ramp would be too heavy or too big to allow access for wheelchairs and trolleys.
 

edwin_m

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I meant in combination with lower trains.
But unless you convert an entire route with no platforms used by other trains, the lower trains end up having to serve the higher platforms and you get the same problem in reverse (only worse as a ramp inside the train isn't going to work).
 

randyrippley

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You would need to rebuild the tunnels to meet the requirements of the Safety in Tunnels TSI. This includes the provision of a continuous walkway at the side of the train to allow emergency evacuation of a train, including the ability to use wheelchairs for PRM evacuation. There may be other issues with ventilation, I don’t know enough about the tunnels in question.

Would that apply if you were to reopen an existing closed tunnel.........e.g. Woodhead?
 

HSTEd

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But unless you convert an entire route with no platforms used by other trains, the lower trains end up having to serve the higher platforms and you get the same problem in reverse (only worse as a ramp inside the train isn't going to work).

Well if the only reason to need level access is for wheelchairs and trolleys you can just provide one high level door on the trainset, with a suitable internal lift such as being provided on the new generation double deck TGVs for trolleys and wheelchairs.
There would be an adjacent low level door so the wheelchair space is always accessible without a step.
 

Tio Terry

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Would that apply if you were to reopen an existing closed tunnel.........e.g. Woodhead?

Application of TSI’s is to all new construction and to any major re-engineering. I think it would be difficult to argue that the total rebuilding of a previously closed route to a different specification of electrified railway was not major re-engineering ( by the way, the electrification would need to be in accordance with the Energy TSI).

You could try to convince the DfT that it wasn’t major re-engineering but I think you would have a very uphill struggle. First hurdle would be emergency evacuation of a train in a tunnel. For the East London line, which was an existing LU railway, the new trains had to be equipped with end evacuation equipment because there was no space for a side evacuation walkway, but this would not meet the current Equalities Act requirements because it does not cater for PRM using wheelchairs.

There is also the question of smoke control within the tunnels and in-tunnel evacuation shafts which need air pressurisation to prevent smoke entering them.

There is a lot to consider and putting a CSM-RA compliant Risk Assessment that the DfT would accept would be a very difficult task!
 

Meerkat

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Easier to bore a new tunnel and use the old one as the evacuation/maintenance route?
 

Tio Terry

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Easier to bore a new tunnel and use the old one as the evacuation/maintenance route?

Quite possibly. There’s still the issue of smoke and ventilation to consider but that might well be the best alternative. As I said earlier, I don’t know the infrastructure well.
 

edwin_m

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Well if the only reason to need level access is for wheelchairs and trolleys you can just provide one high level door on the trainset, with a suitable internal lift such as being provided on the new generation double deck TGVs for trolleys and wheelchairs.
There would be an adjacent low level door so the wheelchair space is always accessible without a step.
By making platforms further back and/or lower you are increasing the risk to all passengers boarding and alighting, not just those in wheelchairs. So some sort of mitigation measure would be needed at every door, not just in relation to PRMs.
 
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