Interesting to know. The rationale here is that statistically you are much more likely to have an incident with more than one person in the cab, which is why it's heavily restricted.
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Tube driver filming himself whilst driving
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That makes sense to a point - albeit I’d personally rather this was left to peoples’ discretion. There’s never an obligation to take someone into the cab with you, but it can be a refreshing change at times!
bengley
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PASS is part of a driver's duty. There is nothing wrong with a driver passing in the cab of a train. Some companies interpret this differently to each other but there is nothing in the rules against it.
Intermodal
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Eh? There are both advertisements and he has set up a monthly subscription program where people can 'Join' and pay him monthly to be a 'Member' of his channel.
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I support Dale and if his management does, that's even more reason for us to let it be.
If anything, the safety issue didn't even cross my mind; if I were to have any doubts it would have been him giving away what the behind-the-scenes features look like! I remember visiting the mock-up Evo stock back in 2014 and asking if there would be a cab or DLR-style no cab and the attendant told me the former due to TfL not wanting passengers to see things they ought not to! But really, does it matter? Even the location of vent shafts are common knowledge these days and you can even feel their impact on the Piccadilly line. We have BVE and DEVs out there.
If anything, the safety issue didn't even cross my mind; if I were to have any doubts it would have been him giving away what the behind-the-scenes features look like! I remember visiting the mock-up Evo stock back in 2014 and asking if there would be a cab or DLR-style no cab and the attendant told me the former due to TfL not wanting passengers to see things they ought not to! But really, does it matter? Even the location of vent shafts are common knowledge these days and you can even feel their impact on the Piccadilly line. We have BVE and DEVs out there.
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I have seen his videos on YouTube and personally I don't think there's any wrong with what he's done and if anything even with a sensitive incident that occurred on one of his shifts he respected the privacy of the individual involved. That speaks volumes and it also gives a hindsight as to what drivers really face on a day to day and crush that theory from the General public that all they do is push buttons all day.
Intermodal
Established Member
It’s not really about whether there is anything “wrong” with it. It’s about whether it is correct for TfL to be allowing drivers to complete activities at work which do not directly relate to the driving task - which certainly would be a break from convention - and whether this has been properly risk assessed (which I suspect not, as I don’t see how it would pass any such assessment).
Let me ask you this in all respect. Do you currently drive trains at the moment? If so are cab ride recordings from your organisation banned?
Intermodal
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I stopped driving within the last year. However, there is no way a driver would've been given authority to record cab views, especially not without management present.
Fair enough. I only asked because of reading through the pages and going through various comments whilst I get it from both sides where there's a very thin line because one mistake can be fatal. Perhaps it could be a case that his superiors may know about it and advised him along with the union (if he's a part of it) what can be allowed and what can't be. If of course the rules change then he would be forced to take down the content.
Intermodal
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I don't doubt for a second that TfL have authorised it. He says multiple times that they have, and I have no reason not to believe him. I don't think he would do it otherwise - why would you risk your job in such a stupid way?
My issue is more with why TfL have authorised it.
PG
Established Member
If you really want to know then you could try (politely) asking TfL to explain their rationale.
RPM
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As a general rule TfL, or at least the Underground part of it, has tended to be more relaxed about what goes on in cabs than is the case on most TOCs. I remember being very surprised to find out a decade or so ago that LU drivers could apply to have family/friends join them for a cab ride. I don't know if this is still the case, but even back then it was absolutely impossible to arrange the same thing at my TOC.
Lost property
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That sounds, to me, like alarmist rubbish you see on a Mail / Express headline.
Surely there must be enough "how to" videos around, plus, anybody intent on doing so would probably do some research first. That, and assuming a Tube was stolen, surely it would be simply a case of isolating the power and, hey presto, Tube train stops !
However, I posed the same question about the incident at Preston and, unsurprisingly, never got a reply. So, I'll pose it again.
How many recorded incidents are there of trains being stolen ?....and, how far did they actually get ?
bramling
Veteran Member
I think this is one of those things that is a hangover from older times, and is something that will come to an end if and when it comes to higher notice through an incident occurring. Naturally the chances of that happening are fairly low (simply on the probability of the number of train miles run versus the number of train miles carried out with someone extra in the cab), therefore status quo prevails.
LU managed to get through the 90s and 00s without having incidents such as Southall and Ladbroke Grove, hence managed to avoid the general tightening up on driver standards that the mainline had.
That said, it isn’t the case that anyone can just rock up and get into a LU cab. Things are one rung up the ladder less tight than mainline, but that’s all.
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Deepgreen
Established Member
Perhaps - but individuals' discretion on safety issues does not have a great record. However, the historical converse of that is that I am old enough to remember being not only allowed into cabs on LU with various Area Managers, but sometimes being given a 'go' (very briefly) - I held no driving credentials whatsoever (this was the 1980s)! One especially memorable cab ride was Central Line EB from Stratford on 1962 stock when there was a known track issue causing trains to bounce and sometimes audibly scrape the tunnel mouth there - it did!
PeterY
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Whether Dale is right or wrong about filming, I enjoy watching them
. IMO he does seem to make safety his top priority. At the end of the day, there's only so much some one can film on the Piccadilly line.
. IMO he does seem to make safety his top priority. At the end of the day, there's only so much some one can film on the Piccadilly line.renegademaster
Established Member
When was the last major incident caused by someone distracted by in cab conversation? The only i can think of, and fairly recent and minor, the shunting incident with Flying Scotsman
Intermodal
Established Member
There have been many incidents caused by this. It's well known that having someone in the cab increases the risk of incidents. I know of several that happened where I worked that were attributed to this.
renegademaster
Established Member
would you elaborate on one?
Intermodal
Established Member
No, as it would personally identify me. However, they were safety of the line incidents that would require full investigation/the driver being stood down.
There have been a number of SPADs, fail to calls, TPWS activations, over speed and more incidents over the years which have at least partly been attributed to more than one person in a cab causing a distraction.
Edsmith
Member
I can't see any problem with it, Dale is obviously not fiddling with the camera whilst driving and the chat is surely no different to talking to a colleague who was in the cab?
Intermodal
Established Member
Great! What factors did you consider when making this conclusion? What sort of risk assessments (if any) did you carry out? What experience or past incidents did you draw upon?
renegademaster
Established Member
Go do a FOI to TfL if you are so desperate to know this. They have signed off on it, not randos on here.
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Has there been any that have made it into RAIB reports? Not doing this for argument sake but genuinely interested to see what their line offically is and what they find acceptable and unacceptable.
Intermodal
Established Member
Thanks for the advice! I was rather just curious how the person reached their conclusion of "I can't see any problem with it" (which has since been edited to add more detail).
renegademaster
Established Member
I guess by not seeing any issues in the videos themselves , and so far not a strong case made in the negative in this thread against what he is doing.
I have seen some of his videos. Found them interesting.
I did see one where he was answering some questions before driving, one of them was "are you allowed to do this", and he said he was allowed to, had management support, and that it would be quite daft to do it without permission given he's showing his face.
My workplace has a (car) driving policy that says we should NOT hold conversations with passengers due to the distraction risk. Which is quite ridiculous.
I did see one where he was answering some questions before driving, one of them was "are you allowed to do this", and he said he was allowed to, had management support, and that it would be quite daft to do it without permission given he's showing his face.
My workplace has a (car) driving policy that says we should NOT hold conversations with passengers due to the distraction risk. Which is quite ridiculous.
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