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TSW or TS19?

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trebor79

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So, I've rented a top spec gaming PC in the cloud (I was sceptical but it works really well streaming to my wheezy old laptop).
I've had a play with TSW, but disappointed to find the "Great Western" is actually just Paddington to Reading.

Thinking about refunding that purchase on Steam and getting TS19 instead. Which is the better simulation amongst those who have tried both? I realise both are a bit limited unless you buy DLC, so leave that aside.
 
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diffident

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Currently, TS2019. There is a much wider range of freeware and payware addons, routes, trains etc etc etc. The simulator has come on in leaps and bounds over the last decade.

I can't see TSW going anywhere really.
 

Iskra

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TSW currently has the major limitation that you can only use the rolling stock that comes bundled with a route on that route.

So on Paddington-Reading you can only use HST's, 165's and 66's, even though 47's and 52's exist in the game.

However in TS2019 you can run anything you want anywhere you want and you can build your own scenarios.

TS2019 will get expensive though if you want to run routes with accurate rolling stock as there is a vast amount of DLC. It would be a good idea to make use of the next Steam Sale.
 

cactustwirly

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Depends what you're after really.
TS19 is a mature product with lots of content, but it's over 10 years old, and feels outdated.

TSW is brand new, built on the Unreal engine, the graphics are amazing, and the first person and service mode features are very neat.
However it doesn't have the editor yet, so you can't create your own scenarios or routes.
Also with TSW the routes are shorter yes, but that's because they're more detailed so require more labour to create, and the physics in TSW are a lot better than in TS19 imo
 

Iskra

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Depends what you're after really.
TS19 is a mature product with lots of content, but it's over 10 years old, and feels outdated.

TSW is brand new, built on the Unreal engine, the graphics are amazing, and the first person and service mode features are very neat.
However it doesn't have the editor yet, so you can't create your own scenarios or routes.
Also with TSW the routes are shorter yes, but that's because they're more detailed so require more labour to create, and the physics in TSW are a lot better than in TS19 imo

Agree with most of that but TS2019 has more realistic sounds which do matter to me for enjoyment and immersion. Although not all the DLC comes with good quality sound, sometimes you need to use 3rd party add ons for that too.
 

cactustwirly

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Agree with most of that but TS2019 has more realistic sounds which do matter to me for enjoyment and immersion. Although not all the DLC comes with good quality sound, sometimes you need to use 3rd party add ons for that too.

I agree, if the TSW sounds aren't as good as the AP sounds, but they're not far off. The 47 in NTP sounds very much like a 47, and definately a step up from the default sounds on TS19
 

trebor79

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Thanks for the thoughts folks. Perhaps I'll try TS19 and then refund the one I least like.
As an aside I'm incredibly impressed with the cloud machine. I can run any game I've tried so far on max graphics settings and it doesn't struggle at all. It has a 1GB internet connection so it doesn't take long for stuff to download and install. The stream to my local machine has also been trouble free. Of course, you can use it for whatever you like, not just gaming. Seems decent value for 30 quid a month.
 

Wivenswold

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I prefer TS to TSW. The latter feels rather lifeless at the moment though that will improve over time.

The TS community is a little like the Flight Simulator X one in that there's loads of quality content, reskins, routes and scenarios being created. I second what's been said about Armstrong Powerhouse, their latest Class 37 pack is sublime. There are creators who've made it possible to drive from Penzance to London (Just Trains) Edinburgh to London (Alan Thompson Sim) and someone is currently completing and updating the entire WCML.

Why not dip your toes in the water and watch Alan Thompson's Twitch stream or You Tube videos or PTG Rail's tutorials on You Tube to see if TS will be your sort of thing. If it is, then welcome to the community.
 

Peter C

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In my opinion, TS2019 is so much better than TSW. I say this because my laptop struggles to run TSW, but from what you've said you don't have that issue. Also, as other people have said, the number of reskins, sound packs, routes, and engines, is much larger than on TSW. Furthermore, from a realistic perspective, I don't think that the routes on TSW have speed boards next to the tracks; it's all done using pop-up messages and markers.
I have spent far too much time on Train Simulator over the past few years and I have built up a large collection of stuff in-game in that time. If you don't want to spend £££ on TS, UKTrainSim has a large selection of freeware content; yes, it's nowhere near as good as some of the payware stuff, but seen as it is free its alright!
Here is the link for UKTS: https://www.uktrainsim.com/FreewarePacks/
If you want the downloads to be quicker, pay the £2/£3 for a month's membership (or whatever it's called) and get direct downloads. I very rarely use UKTS so I don't pay and just wait out the download time by playing TS!

Hope this helps,

-Peter
 

cactustwirly

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In my opinion, TS2019 is so much better than TSW. I say this because my laptop struggles to run TSW, but from what you've said you don't have that issue. Also, as other people have said, the number of reskins, sound packs, routes, and engines, is much larger than on TSW. Furthermore, from a realistic perspective, I don't think that the routes on TSW have speed boards next to the tracks; it's all done using pop-up messages and markers.


Remember that TS2019 is basically 10 years old, so it has 10 years worth of DLC and mods, but with 10 years worth of problems, it's unstable, and has limitations to the signalling and physics.
Obviously, TSW is just over 2 years old, it doesn't have the same amount of DLC, but if you ignore that, it trumps TS2019 in every other way.

Nope the routes have proper speedboards and signs, the pop-ups are the HUD which can be turned off.
 

Peter C

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Remember that TS2019 is basically 10 years old, so it has 10 years worth of DLC and mods, but with 10 years worth of problems, it's unstable, and has limitations to the signalling and physics.
Obviously, TSW is just over 2 years old, it doesn't have the same amount of DLC, but if you ignore that, it trumps TS2019 in every other way.

Nope the routes have proper speedboards and signs, the pop-ups are the HUD which can be turned off.
OK. I didn't know about the speedboards; I just haven't seen any. Yes, I agree with the fact that TS has been around for longer, but TSW has been out for two years and we still don't have basic features which TS has had for a long time, including the scenario/route editor and steam engines.

-Peter
 

AlexNL

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If you want lots of content, go for TS2019. There are many many routes and trains available for download and purchase, and there is a mature modding community working on lots of content.

If you want good visuals and a truly immersive experience, go with Train Sim World. The routes themselves may be shorter* but they are usually modelled rather well and provide a very immersive experience as you can wander around stations and through the trains. Passenger trains are modelled almost fully, so you can just sit down and enjoy the view if you like.

There's no editor for TSW yet though, so you'll have to do with what Dovetail gives you. There's some community content (sound fixes, reskins) but not to the level of detail as seen in TS2019 as the tools simply aren't there yet.

* According to DTG, this has to do with the amount of time it takes to create a route. Building content for TSW is much more labour intensive than it is for TS2019, while they know that a £50 route won't sell as well as their current pricing point.
 

cactustwirly

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OK. I didn't know about the speedboards; I just haven't seen any. Yes, I agree with the fact that TS has been around for longer, but TSW has been out for two years and we still don't have basic features which TS has had for a long time, including the scenario/route editor and steam engines.

-Peter

The editor in TSW is coming, it's just taking longer than expected to develop.
 

cactustwirly

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OK. What about steam engines? It would have been good for DTG to include a steam loco in the WSR DLC.

-Peter

On the back burner for now, it's the implementation that's tricky, they're a lot harder to drive compared to Diesel/Electric locos, so they're figuring out a way to make it easier.
 

AlexNL

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There are also some graphical challenges relating to steam engines, according to one of the devs if they'd build a steam engine now it'd be a "diesel in disguise" and that wouldn't please players. For the same reason they don't want to do the Riviera Line yet, as they want to be able to "truly capture the Dawlish experience" and they don't yet feel comfortable doing so.
 

Peter C

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On the back burner for now, it's the implementation that's tricky, they're a lot harder to drive compared to Diesel/Electric locos, so they're figuring out a way to make it easier.

Personally, I hope that if they bring a steam engine out it will have two modes; expert and basic. Like TS2019.

-Peter
 

Peter C

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There are also some graphical challenges relating to steam engines, according to one of the devs if they'd build a steam engine now it'd be a "diesel in disguise" and that wouldn't please players. For the same reason they don't want to do the Riviera Line yet, as they want to be able to "truly capture the Dawlish experience" and they don't yet feel comfortable doing so.

Interesting. I'd happily wait for them to make a steam loco for TSW as long as it is a good one. And not a diesel wearing a disguise. :)

-Peter
 

Statto

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Noticed TSW is available for consoles as well as PC/Laptop, wondering what the PS4 version is like, as i have a PS4, whether it's worth buying?
 

AlexNL

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The game itself and the vehicles are what you'd get on PC as well. It's built on the same engine after all.

Having said that, there are some differences:
- The "Sand Patch Grade" route (CSX Heavy Haul) is not available on consoles. It was the first route they ever built for UE4 and according to Dovetail devs, "it's poorly optimised and doesn't run well on consoles".
- On Xbox, GWE HST services are 6 coaches for performance reasons.
- Service Mode timetables may be slimmed down on consoles - once again, for performance reasons.
 

071

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Noticed TSW is available for consoles as well as PC/Laptop, wondering what the PS4 version is like, as i have a PS4, whether it's worth buying?

I use TSW on a PS4. It's very good, looks well, drives well and I get to play train driver on the big telly. If I had any complaints they would be: that some of the trophy missions are a serious grind and some more mainline UK routes would be appreciated.

Since I got into TSW I decided to also get TS2019 on the PC. At the risk of getting into a "religious" debate... I was disappointed. It's nowhere near as slick as TSW and there is absolutely no impression of speed, which is something TSW excels at.

Edited to add: Re: TSW on PS4 - there is occasional graphical "tearing" at the sides of the screen - around window frames. Normally I don't even notice it, so I don't consider it a problem. I think it's a feature of how they create the impression of speed. This could be a PS4 limitation that might be improved on the PS4 Pro, or it might be a console limitation. I get the impression that the timetable is missing a lot of other services - for instance you can sometimes get held at a red for no apparent reason or switched from Slow to Fast lines and back again in what looks for all the world like an overtaking manoeuvre only there is no train to overtake. Again, I suspect this is a console limitation and doesn't cause a problem.
 
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trebor79

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Well I tried both and in the end got TSW refunded.
I think TSW will be the best product at some point - the graphics are better etc. However, the content is far too limited at present and some of the scenarios are ludicrous. Such as catch a train into Paddington to then drive an HST to Reading. 10 minutes watching the scenery pass by. Then 15 minutes sat doing literally nothing waiting for the HST departure time.
They need to make more routes and trains and design some decent scenarios to make TSW more attractive IMO.
The cab views aren't as good in TS19, there doesn't seem to be a way of seeing the drivers desk and a decent amount of windscreen, which you can do in TSW, but that and a graphics downgrade are about the only negatives for TS19 that I can see.
 

AlexNL

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I get the impression that the timetable is missing a lot of other services - for instance you can sometimes get held at a red for no apparent reason or switched from Slow to Fast lines and back again in what looks for all the world like an overtaking manoeuvre only there is no train to overtake.
This is on Great Western Express, probably?

The dispatcher optimises the route based on distance, it can sometimes happen that slow->fast->slow is a few yards shorter than remaining on the slow line all the way through. At that time that route was built, DTG did not have the tools to visualise which route a train would take - the only way to find out which route a train takes is to drive it all the way.


some of the scenarios are ludicrous. Such as catch a train into Paddington to then drive an HST to Reading. 10 minutes watching the scenery pass by. Then 15 minutes sat doing literally nothing waiting for the HST departure time.
Some of the scenarios work better if you see them as tutorials. The 10 minutes of "watching the scenery pass by" is to introduce you to the passenger aspect of service mode: just board a train and sit down.
They need to make more routes and trains and design some decent scenarios to make TSW more attractive IMO.
They are working on this, but it takes time. DTG aren't the biggest of companies, while route building for UE4 is a time and labour intensive process. It's not a mainstream game either, it's not like they're building the next FIFA or Battlefield :)

DTG recently announced the next route: Darlington - Saltburn-by-the-Sea set in 1989. This route comes with a Class 08, Class 37, and 3-car Class 101 and seems to be mainly focused on freight traffic in that area.

They're also still working on releasing editing tools and guidance, once these are out it'll become possible for people to make their own routes, trains and scenarios. How those will be distributed isn't known yet though, getting community content to consoles is rather hard as it'd involve Sony and Microsoft.
 

hexagon789

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The cab views aren't as good in TS19, there doesn't seem to be a way of seeing the drivers desk and a decent amount of windscreen

You can do that by changing the field of view setting. The default is 100 I believe, I find 85 is better.
 

071

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This is on Great Western Express, probably?

The dispatcher optimises the route based on distance, it can sometimes happen that slow->fast->slow is a few yards shorter than remaining on the slow line all the way through. At that time that route was built, DTG did not have the tools to visualise which route a train would take - the only way to find out which route a train takes is to drive it all the way.

Yes - that's it exactly. It's not a problem and if anything, provides variety as you get slowed by approach release aspects.

Edited to add: Really looking forward to the Tees Valley Line coming to TSW.
 

GrimShady

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Has anyone tried Tees Valley yet?

Whats the 37 audio like? Up to the same level as the recent AP release?
 
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