Trying to understand ZONE U#### LONDN

[CheapAndNerdy]

From previous threads I have come to understand that a destination of ZONE U#### LONDN includes a journey on LU/DLR covering the specified zones. So I was messing about on brfares.com and came across the following:

Reading to Leyton Und (http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=RDG&dest=ZLY&rlc=) gives fares that are routed via Ealing Common or West Acton. Now these underground station are all in zone 3, but Leyton is on the opposite side of London. Brfares.com lists a fare to ZONE U3* LONDN, but I cannot see how to get from one side to the other on LU/DLR keeping solely in zone 3.

So I assume that my understanding is incomplete. Are the U zones concerned only with the stations where you start/end your LU/DLR journey, and not with the zones traversed?

 

[maniacmartin]

My understanding that From: READING STATIONS To: ZONE U3* LONDN will entitle you to make a journey from Reading to any LU/DLR station in Zone 3, and it doesn't matter whether you have to pass through zones 1 or 2 to get there, however I may be wrong.

If this is the case, I'd be interested to find out if you're allowed a BoJ on the tube part whilst in zones 1 and 2

 

[Paul Kelly]

but I cannot see how to get from one side to the other on LU/DLR keeping solely in zone 3.

Then the Zone U3* Londn fare is not valid for this journey! If you could get to the other side keeping your LU/DLR journey only in zone 3 it would be a useful fare though, but I guess BR Fares doesn't have a tube map built-in to check possible/reasonable routes for these fares; you need to do a manual check...

So I assume that my understanding is incomplete. Are the U zones concerned only with the stations where you start/end your LU/DLR journey, and not with the zones traversed?

No, the latter interpretation is correct.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

My understanding that From: READING STATIONS To: ZONE U3* LONDN will entitle you to make a journey from Reading to any LU/DLR station in Zone 3, and it doesn't matter whether you have to pass through zones 1 or 2 to get there, however I may be wrong.

If this is the case, I'd be interested to find out if you're allowed a BoJ on the tube part whilst in zones 1 and 2

You must have paid for each zone you enter, if you go to a zone 3 station via zones 1 and 2 you would need a Zone U123 ticket. If you go to a zone 3 station without entering any other zone, you can use a Zone U3 ticket.

 

[maniacmartin]

Do you have a reference to any official source for that?

Despite having the name "Zone" in the station name, these are are point to point and not zonal tickets, so I'm not entirely convinced that you need the name of every zone passed through to be named on the ticket.

 

[RJ]

From previous threads I have come to understand that a destination of ZONE U#### LONDN includes a journey on LU/DLR covering the specified zones. So I was messing about on brfares.com and came across the following:

Reading to Leyton Und (http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=RDG&dest=ZLY&rlc=) gives fares that are routed via Ealing Common or West Acton. Now these underground station are all in zone 3, but Leyton is on the opposite side of London. Brfares.com lists a fare to ZONE U3* LONDN, but I cannot see how to get from one side to the other on LU/DLR keeping solely in zone 3.

So I assume that my understanding is incomplete. Are the U zones concerned only with the stations where you start/end your LU/DLR journey, and not with the zones traversed?

The idea is that you change trains at Ealing Broadway . The stations you can actually travel to are limited because you can't get from West to East London by the Tube without going into Zone 1.

To get to Leyton, you'd need a U123 type ticket.


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Do you have a reference to any official source for that?

Despite having the name "Zone" in the station name, these are are point to point and not zonal tickets, so I'm not entirely convinced that you need the name of every zone passed through to be named on the ticket.

Tickets to the U Zones are about as point to point as tickets to London Zones.

 

[John @ home]

Do you have a reference to any official source for that?

This used to be described in the National Fares Manual. The last online edition was NFM 98 (valid 2 January - 17 May 2008) and the relevant Section is attached. This includes:

"Fares inclusive of travel on London Underground / Transport for London (TfL) Services

There are six charging zones for fares in the Greater London Area. Zone 1 is the Central Zone, and Zones 2 to 6 form concentric rings around it. A map and index of stations in the Fares Zone Area is included in Section K.

The letter ’U’ or ’R’ prefixes the Zone or Zones to which tickets are issued to or from. Tickets with a ’U’ prefix include one single or return journey to or from a London Underground or Docklands Light Railway station within the zones shown. Many ’U’ zone fares are shown in the station listings in Section C, but there are some instances where an underground station name is used as a destination. These generally involve travel to London Underground Metropolitan Line stations outside Zone 6 or to Heathrow Underground. In these instances fares should be compiled in accordance with the instructions shown in Section L. Details of fares to Heathrow Underground are also shown in the RailLinks Manual."

 

[maniacmartin]

I've looked in the Manual under London > Through tickets to/from LU & DLR from stations outside the London Fare Zones Area and its a bit confusing. I've only quoted what I believe to be the relevant parts:

The price of tickets issued for through journeys are determined by the zones used between the National Rail ‘interchange’ station and the zone in which the destination or origin LU /DLR station is located (not from Southern stations – see below). For example, a ticket from Coventry to Canary Wharf (in Zone 2) valid via London Euston is issued to ZONE U12 LONDN. And a ticket for a journey in the opposite direction would be issued from ‘ZONE U12 LONDN’.

Southern 'Out-boundary' stations issue through tickets on a different basis. Tickets must be issued for all the zones passed through within the London Fare Zones area tickets, not just those from the National Rail/London Underground interchange station. For example, a ticket from Brighton to Underground Zone 1 will be issued to U1256. Passengers interchanging at Balham and not wishing to travel via Zone 1 should be issued with a ticket to U2356 or U3456 as appropriate.

From the London’s Rail & Tube Services Map London's Rail & Tube services map identify the zones which will be entered or crossed to reach the LU/DLR destination from the National Rail interchange station.

Based on this, I conceed that the ticket should mention every zone that is passed through on LU/DLR, and for Southern out-boundary stations it should also cover the zones you pass through on National Rail. I don't think that this validty information is readily available to passengers though. Presumably this is because it is assumed that the ticket clerk will inform the passenger as to the validity and it is near-impossible to buy U#### London without talking to a booking clerk.

I presume a U1256 ticket covers zones 3-4, even though it doesn't mention them
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The letter ’U’ or ’R’ prefixes the Zone or Zones to which tickets are issued to or from. Tickets with a ’U’ prefix include one single or return journey to or from a London Underground or Docklands Light Railway station within the zones shown.

This further proves that the information provided to the public is lacking. Does "within the zones shown" refer to the travel or the LU/DLR station. I read that sentence as permitting one single or return journey to a LU/DLR station, where that station is within the zones shown - otherwise "within the zones shown" would have been written immediately after "journey".

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I presume a U1256 ticket covers zones 3-4, even though it doesn't mention them....

Yes (and it's the same for Zone U1245 being valid through zone 3), simply because you couldn't go between zones 2 and 5 (or 2 and 4 in the case of U1245) without going through those zones.

 

[island]

Yes it is just to save space.

 

[Eagle]

...simply because you couldn't go between zones 2 and 5 (or 2 and 4 in the case of U1245) without going through those zones.

Well you can go directly from zone 2 to zone 4 on the Metropolitan line... [/dubious] :P