Trump's visit, Friday 13th July

[Mutant Lemming]

Churchill did a pretty good job of leading the country through WW2. Unless you can think of ways in which he wasn’t good for the people of this country?

How about the starving people of the valleys who he turned the troops on ?
The people of this country roundly rejected him and all he stood for back in 1945 - They were there at the time and they knew what he was like - I trust their judgment over the Daily Mail propaganda extolling him as a messiah.

 

[Groningen]

The rumour is that Donald Trump wants to sit in a horse drawn carriage with Queen Elizabeth next to him. So that is Friday in 10 weeks. I can only say: good luck! Maybe he can also visit Cambridge Analytica (or is it a USA company?).

 

[Bromley boy]

How about the starving people of the valleys who he turned the troops on ?
The people of this country roundly rejected him and all he stood for back in 1945 - They were there at the time and they knew what he was like - I trust their judgment over the Daily Mail propaganda extolling him as a messiah.

The people rejected him and all he stood for, did they? I guess that explains why they re-elected him as PM in 1951...

Much is might irritate irrelevant lefties in 2018, Churchill was probably the greatest politician of the 20th century.

 

[DarloRich]

Much is might irritate irrelevant lefties in 2018, Churchill was probably the greatest politician of the 20th century.

or Atlee.

How about the starving people of the valleys who he turned the troops on ?
The people of this country roundly rejected him and all he stood for back in 1945 - They were there at the time and they knew what he was like - I trust their judgment over the Daily Mail propaganda extolling him as a messiah.

It seems you don't know your history as well as you think.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

Much is might irritate irrelevant lefties in 2018, Churchill was probably the greatest politician of the 20th century.

or Atlee.

I personally lean more towards Attlee. His legacy still lives on today with the welfare state and National Health Service. Not to mention how Churchill wasn't as highly regarded as a peacetime leader as he was wartime leader.

Really that's what Churchill was good for if anything; keeping Britain on the fighting lines and refusing to surrender. I get that's a big legacy but can he really be remembered for much else? I mean from the eyes of some massive Eurosceptics, Germany pretty much rules Europe today through the EU anyway, so clearly Churchill's legacy seems more muddled up and questionable than Attlee's just by that nature alone. I mean it's very much a fact that Attlee's government created the NHS and welfare state etc., but clearly some bring in the much more subjective question of Germany's current power in Europe (different subject altogether though really).

Speaking of Churchill though, I actually think if he were alive today that he may well have liked Donald Trump. I'm sure some may disagree with me on that part but they both have some kind of nationalist attitude towards their own countries and put their home nations before any others, so they had a bit in common. Maybe they wouldn't have connected though cause of differing mental health issues, but one of them is dead so we'll never know the answer unfortunately.

 

[TheEdge]

I mean from the eyes of some massive Eurosceptics, Germany pretty much rules Europe today through the EU anyway, so clearly Churchill's legacy seems more muddled up and questionable than Attlee's just by that nature alone.

While it would be very hard to argue Germany isn't the dominant European power now I don't think doing it via the EU is quite what Mr Hitler and chums had in mind and doesn't really muddle the legacy of Churchill's leadership

 

[Domh245]

While it would be very hard to argue Germany isn't the dominant European power now I don't think doing it via the EU is quite what Mr Hitler and chums had in mind and doesn't really muddle the legacy of Churchill's leadership

Indeed, and of course Winston Churchill was in favour of a "United States of Europe" post war.

It is to re-create the European Family, or as much of it as we can, and provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom.

We must build a kind of United States of Europe.

In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why not? Both Robert Mugabe and Enver Hoxa were invited over to meet Her Majesty and those two are far far nastier than the bloke who's got the two Koreas talking

I don't think you can attribute the outbreak of sanity on the Korean peninsula with Trump's policies. It's much more likely that China was a key influence on North Korea, add to that the opportunity the Olympics gave for diplomacy, and probably some internal political pressure because his nuclear research facilities collapsed (!) on Kim.

How about the starving people of the valleys who he turned the troops on ?
The people of this country roundly rejected him and all he stood for back in 1945 - They were there at the time and they knew what he was like - I trust their judgment over the Daily Mail propaganda extolling him as a messiah.

Churchill was not a "bad person" by the standards of his time. It's always important to consider what the contemporary moral standards were when judging people from history.

People didn't judge Churchill or his party based on his treatment of opponents overseas. You're looking at him through a postmodern lens of rights and identity politics, which are very much emphasised now but much lower down the scale in the 1940s. The principal concern among the electorate was the economic and social rebuilding of Britain after World War II. The public (rightly) thought Attlee had the better ideas and a more competent cabinet - don't forget the wartime government was a coalition and so Labour already had key figures like Attlee, Cripps and Bevin actually in the wartime government.

 

[Bromley boy]

or Atlee.

Agreed, a close call between those two.

Maggie Thatcher for third place?

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

Maggie Thatcher for third place?

Though it wasn’t addressed to me, I must say that as a scouser it would be blasphemous of me to even discuss such a high spot for Maggie Thatcher Milk Snatcher .

This of course despite the fact I never lived during her reign. Then again her legacy still lives on apparently, and a lot of my large family dislike her, even those who lean more towards UKIP, and even ones who lean further right!

 

[Bromley boy]

Though it wasn’t addressed to me, I must say that as a scouser it would be blasphemous of me to even discuss such a high spot for Maggie Thatcher Milk Snatcher .

This of course despite the fact I never lived during her reign. Then again her legacy still lives on apparently, and a lot of my large family dislike her, even those who lean more towards UKIP, and even ones who lean further right!

Indeed, she is a contentious character! Especially up north!

Then again she was the UK’s first female PM which is quite something. Especially for a the daughter of a greengrocer from Grantham.

 

[DarloRich]

Maggie Thatcher for third place?

Only if all other PM's are deleted from history along with every other human person and most animal & plant life and even then a cockroach would be favorite with the bookies

Indeed, she is a contentious character! Especially up north!

winner of the understatement of the year award goes to..............

Then again she was the UK’s fist acid blooded killing machine from the planet Rygal 7 elected PM which is quite something.

fixed that for you

 

[Bromley boy]

Only if all other PM's are deleted from history along with every other human person and most animal & plant life and even then a cockroach would be favorite with the bookies



winner of the understatement of the year award goes to..............



fixed that for you

Just so I’m clear, then, are you saying you do or don’t like her?

I had an inkling you might not be her biggest fan.

“Acid blooded killing machine”. Strewth! .

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

“Acid blooded killing machine”. Strewth! .

Not saying that Margaret Thatcher was an evil villain, but if she took a "Which Fictional Character Are You?" quiz, her result would probably be the Xenomorph from Alien...