Truck driver shortages - more rail freight?

[easyken]

I'm hearing a lot at work at the minute (I work in supply chain), that there are huge implications across Europe due to a shortage of lorry drivers.

This is leading to factories (including some of the 'big, big' names) running at around 75% capacity, as they simply can't get their products out of the factory quickly enough.

Was just wondering what the potential solutions for this are - could some of this traffic move onto rail? How much 'spare capacity' is there for rail freight? Presume 'not a lot' in the South East, for example!

Especially with Brexit etc, there will be an increasing lack of European drivers willing to work over here, as the pay isn't enough given exchange rates etc...

Any thoughts?

 

[daikilo]

Indeed, there is a theoretical shortage of drivers in various European ountries including the UK and predictions are that it will get worse unless conditions and in particular pay improves. The question is whether the cost of that will tilt the balance towards rail, which in my view is likely as short-tripping can be seen as a benefit to driver lifestyle. However, an increase in lorry-driver wages or improvements to conditions could have a knock-on effect on rail drivers also.

One set of flows which could see a swing is unaccompanied UK to Europe especially post-Brexit. Whether that means through the tunnel or by ferry is not clear, but loading /unloading/clearance at inland "ports" seems favoured due to security concerns.

Finally, there are concepts for trucks with autonomous driving, and driver-less is just the final step in the process.

 

[shredder1]

The licensing system for LGV/HGV drivers is more complex in this country now, when I did my class 1, you could simply go in for the test right from a car license, these days they have to get a 7.5 licence, then a ridgid to 30.5 ton I think, and then a class 1, plus a drivers CPC and digital tacho these days.

 

[Darandio]

The licensing system for LGV/HGV drivers is more complex in this country now, when I did my class 1, you could simply go in for the test right from a car license, these days they have to get a 7.5 licence, then a ridgid to 30.5 ton I think, and then a class 1, plus a drivers CPC and digital tacho these days.

And remember that car licences issued prior to 1996 had a C1 entitlement on their licence allowing them to drive a vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes. That meant for many years afterwards, many haulage companies could take up the slack to some degree with these vehicles when there were driver shortages.

Over 20 years on, this isn't really a solution any more.

 

[Antman]

The licensing system for LGV/HGV drivers is more complex in this country now, when I did my class 1, you could simply go in for the test right from a car license, these days they have to get a 7.5 licence, then a ridgid to 30.5 ton I think, and then a class 1, plus a drivers CPC and digital tacho these days.

I think the (somewhat pointless) CPC is the final straw for a lot of existing drivers and the costs must deter anybody who was considering taking up lorry driving?

 

[Lrd]

CPC costs are usually paid for by the employer so unless you're self employed then you'll get 5 days away from driving and still being paid

 

[Antman]

CPC costs are usually paid for by the employer so unless you're self employed then you'll get 5 days away from driving and still being paid

I think most drivers would rather be driving than sat in a classroom bored to tears. Any newcomers to the industry would presumably have to pay themselves on top of the not inconsiderable costs of lessons and tests.

 

[EastMidlander]

I think the (somewhat pointless) CPC is the final straw for a lot of existing drivers and the costs must deter anybody who was considering taking up lorry driving?

Maybe the introduction of something similar for car drivers would't be a bad idea judging by the standard of driving seen on the roads these days.

 

[whoosh]

I'm sure there was a proposal a few years ago, that instead of improving pay, terms and conditions of lorry drivers, a push for a drop in the minimum age to drive one from 21 to 18 was sought instead.

 

[FordFocus]

There is a shortage as so few want to spend £1000s on HGV tests and examinations. In some cases people also have to pay for a CPC and medical as well. The rewards afterwards aren't great, some employers are still less than £8.50ph to compete with European firms like Waberer's with their cheap costs and labour. It's not like airlines where students will happily spend £120,000 of mummy and daddy's money or secure a training loan against an asset. Then spend a few years grinding it out at Ryanair all over Europe before trying to be one of the lucky ones to get in at BA or Virgin for big money.

Eventually I can see some major companies hiring in apprentices or trainees and paying for the majority of the costs just to get bodies driving trucks.

As for the rail side of things. Unless these factories and suppliers across Europe have the ability to send cargo in containers and intermodal then I doubt rail will pick up much slack. Freight has it's own issues at the minute with staffing. DB Cargo have culled staff and is now asking some to stay on because they have no idea what they are doing. Freightliner are having issues with staffing and have a strike ballot on the way over industrial issues (not pay before anyone asks....). GB Railfreight in recent years have sought out new markets and quietly gone about their business. If they sniff an opportunity I would place my money on it been them.

 

[shredder1]

And remember that car licences issued prior to 1996 had a C1 entitlement on their licence allowing them to drive a vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes. That meant for many years afterwards, many haulage companies could take up the slack to some degree with these vehicles when there were driver shortages.

Over 20 years on, this isn't really a solution any more.

Thats right we coud drive to 7.5, now a car license only allows upto 3.5.

 

[shredder1]

I think the (somewhat pointless) CPC is the final straw for a lot of existing drivers and the costs must deter anybody who was considering taking up lorry driving?

Yes indeed, I`m sure its helped contribute, plus the electronic tachgraph.

 

[shredder1]

There is a shortage as so few want to spend

Eventually I can see some major companies hiring in apprentices or trainees and paying for the majority of the costs just to get bodies driving trucks.

.

I think Stobart`s have been offering apprenticeships

 

[shredder1]

Maybe the introduction of something similar for car drivers would't be a bad idea judging by the standard of driving seen on the roads these days.

Car drivers certainly need to be made more knowledgable, as well as being a former Class 1 LGV, I`m also a former ADI and transport manager. The CPC however is a Certificate of Professional Competance, we had to do a transport managers CPC back in the day, the drivers CPC is something different though, but both are aimed at professionals, so couldnt be applied to car users.

 

[Holly]

The licensing system for LGV/HGV drivers is more complex in this country now, when I did my class 1, you could simply go in for the test right from a car license, these days they have to get a 7.5 licence, then a rigid to 30.5 ton I think, and then a class 1, plus a drivers CPC and digital tacho these days.

Yes, I seem to recall that one of the hardest HGV skills to master is reversing an artic up to a loading dock where clearances are tight. That seems to be an ideal application for low speed human-free computer driving, so as to de-skill the drivers' job.
I haven't seen it attempted even though (presumably) most loading docks are not on public land and therefore relatively free of restrictive laws.

 

[HSTEd]

If we had a better loading guage I would suggest a network of rolling highways, so drivers can rest on route whilst still moving. Or even unaccompanied lorries/trailers for larger hauliers.

So they only drive 20 miles to the nearest dock location and 20 miles at the other end.
Would even permit the development of electric lorries because you could charge the lorries underway.

And double stack containers would allow reduction in delivery company staffing because people like Amazon (with a handful of very large depots) could pack a delivery route into a 20 foot container, ship it by stacktrain to the requisite location and then put it straight onto the delivery van with no additional handling.

 

[easyken]

There is a shortage as so few want to spend £1000s on HGV tests and examinations. In some cases people also have to pay for a CPC and medical as well. The rewards afterwards aren't great, some employers are still less than £8.50ph to compete with European firms like Waberer's with their cheap costs and labour. It's not like airlines where students will happily spend £120,000 of mummy and daddy's money or secure a training loan against an asset. Then spend a few years grinding it out at Ryanair all over Europe before trying to be one of the lucky ones to get in at BA or Virgin for big money.

Eventually I can see some major companies hiring in apprentices or trainees and paying for the majority of the costs just to get bodies driving trucks.

As for the rail side of things. Unless these factories and suppliers across Europe have the ability to send cargo in containers and intermodal then I doubt rail will pick up much slack. Freight has it's own issues at the minute with staffing. DB Cargo have culled staff and is now asking some to stay on because they have no idea what they are doing. Freightliner are having issues with staffing and have a strike ballot on the way over industrial issues (not pay before anyone asks....). GB Railfreight in recent years have sought out new markets and quietly gone about their business. If they sniff an opportunity I would place my money on it been them.

Part of the problem is that many drivers are now agency-employed... and agencies don't tend to pay for training. With fewer and fewer companies owning their own fleet, and with national service no longer a thing (and the HGV licences earned during it!), it's difficult and relatively expensive to join the club.

With Brexit etc - and the 'Silk Road' opening up from China - I spy an opportunity for rail here, assuming capacity is available. Relatively cheap & relatively fast.

 

[Damo1977]

£35k-£45k pa here for LGV1 drivers, up to 48hr week, 4 or 5 days over 7. 80 vacancies and have had pretty consistently for last 5 years.

Many other distribution businesses in the south are similar. We used to pay for the CPC for new starters but people joint just to get their card then left.

It’s not thought of as an enjoyable career anymore, sat in traffic, much more responsibility.

 

[GlosRail]

I could see a demand on a few routes for a channel tunnel style lorry train where the lorries drives into the train to be transported overnight for example to be dropped off hundreds of miles later.

I would assume this isn't possible though due to the loading gauge.

 

[HowardGWR]

If we had a better loading guage I would suggest a network of rolling highways, so drivers can rest on route whilst still moving. Or even unaccompanied lorries/trailers for larger hauliers.

So they only drive 20 miles to the nearest dock location and 20 miles at the other end.
Would even permit the development of electric lorries because you could charge the lorries underway.

And double stack containers would allow reduction in delivery company staffing because people like Amazon (with a handful of very large depots) could pack a delivery route into a 20 foot container, ship it by stacktrain to the requisite location and then put it straight onto the delivery van with no additional handling.

What you are saying is just magically expand the UK's girth to be the size of a continent like America and bob's your uncle!

Oh, wait, we could the have a US of Europe perhaps.

 

[martian boy]

CPC costs are usually paid for by the employer so unless you're self employed then you'll get 5 days away from driving and still being paid

Many companies no longer do this. The big bus companies still do, and I think some of the big haulage companies do. Once you've got the CPC, the next one is due in five years time. This can be split up doing one day per year. Some companies will tell you to take a week from your holidays, although they may pay for the CPC. I've heard of a number of older HGV drivers saying they will pack it in when their CPC is up.

 

[HSTEd]

What you are saying is just magically expand the UK's girth to be the size of a continent like America and bob's your uncle!

Oh, wait, we could the have a US of Europe perhaps.

If you are willing to pay for it you can have it in a country as small as Switzerland.
The question is whether subsidies could be held down to levels hat would make it cheaper than simply enduring the economic problems from traffic and the ongoing driver shortage