Trouble on the train - would you give a statement?

[Saint66]

Off the railways- I saw some offenders running away from incident and spoke to the police. They then called me to the police station to give a statement, and a few weeks ago I received a letter saying my statement had helped them achieve a conviction.

So, I would like to think that if anything happened on a train, I would speak up and help with a statement.

 

[londonbridge]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1451018&postcount=28

 

[SamYeager]

I find that a poor excuse I am afraid - is the inconvenience of the witness not immaterial when considered against the inconvenience of the victim?

So you're quite happy to have more than one victim then? Apart from the inconvenience there is the matter of the day's recompense as already pointed out. Bear in mind that it's quite possible that the hearing will be adjourned if one or more parties do not attend so the financial loss will be increased.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I have given a statement in the past, when a brick came through the glass door at a local takeaway accompanied by various racist comments aimed at the proprietor. I waited for the police and gave them my account of what happened, which probably wasn't very helpful as I didn't see much, but would have corroborated the staff's statement.

A few weeks ago I was on a MegaBus which stopped at Woodhall Services to await the police to remove a disruptive passenger. Personally I could see that the driver had little other option but to do what he did, but in those circumstances where an already late service is delayed waiting for the police I can understand why people might think that saying nothing will get them on their way more quickly.

 

[Oliver]

If you don't help the police then you're helping the criminal.

I overpowered a mugger on a train near Cambridge a few years ago. I gave a statement along with a couple of other people. When it came to court the accused saw that the witnesses were there and changed his plea to guilty and got 10 months.

Make my day!

 

[DarloRich]

So you're quite happy to have more than one victim then? Apart from the inconvenience there is the matter of the day's recompense as already pointed out. Bear in mind that it's quite possible that the hearing will be adjourned if one or more parties do not attend so the financial loss will be increased.

Are you actually suggesting you would turn a blind eye to a crime because it might cause you some minor inconvenience and you might loose a days pay?

That attitude, as Oliver states, merely aids the criminal! I think it is wrong.

 

[richw]

Using the above quote as an example and not a personal attack - I don’t understand this view. Is a crime not a crime regardless of victim & perpetrator? Is it ok not to take part of you don’t think the victim is a decent chap? How do you now the drunken victim isn’t a decent, fine, upstanding chap who went for night out to celebrate the birth of his first child and has been the victim of a vicious unprovoked attack?

To me it doesn’t matter if the victim is a colleague or not. The fact they are a victim of a crime is all that matters.

(God that does sound pompous!)

I didn't make my post clear, I meant if 2 drunken yobs were fighting for example, and I'd witnessed them provoking each other.
If there was no provocation I would give statement.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Not sure where this idea of losing a day's pay comes from - you can claim Witness Expenses of up to £67/day tax free

https://www.gov.uk/going-to-court-victim-witness/expenses-for-going-to-court

 

[455driver]

Yes I would give my details.
Yes I have given my details in the past.
Yes I have been to Court as a witness.
Yes I have waded in when I saw somebody being assaulted.

I have also seen people stand there while somebody was getting beaten up (the one I helped in), including somebody filming it on their phone but when the Police turned up he said he never saw anything. When I informed the Police that he had taped it and the Police asked to see it he wasnt very happy.

Normal people dont want the hassle of getting involved and will lie to get out of having to do anything to assist.
These same people will then moan like hell about the Police not doing anything when something happens to them and everyone else shies away from helping them!

 

[overtonchris]

Normal people dont want the hassle of getting involved and will lie to get out of having to do anything to assist.
These same people will then moan like hell about the Police not doing anything when something happens to them and everyone else shies away from helping them!

I couldn't agree more with your last 2 sentences.....I find it more than slightly annoying that "normal" people can at times be SO self-obsessed, selfish and totally uncaring about another person being assaulted (or whatever). Human nature? Obviously with some humans ...Bloody shame though.

Saying that - it would obviously be a different scenario giving a statement in private to a police officer and wading in single-handed to fend off a dozen large thugs...
......discretion would win over valour there with me I'm afraid.

 

[455driver]

it was only three onto one when I waded in, funnily enough the three lost the will to fight when I gave two of them a good slap, bloody hurt my hand but it was worth it.

I still have the sunken knuckle to prove it, it doesnt like cold weather either!

 

[overtonchris]

it was only three onto one when I waded in, funnily enough the three lost the will to fight when I gave two of them a good slap, bloody hurt my hand but it was worth it.

I still have the sunken knuckle to prove it, it doesnt like cold weather either!

You're my Hero!!! ....you may have sunken knuckles...but you've obviously got bigger sphericals than me!!!!!!

 

[455driver]

You're my Hero!!! ....

Nope, not really, the lad taking the pasting was the size of Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory, the 3 scummers giving him the hiding were all much bigger than him but smaller than me (not that it would have made much difference, the first they knew was when I caught one of them with a perfect right hook and he literally flew, the second saw it coming but wasnt quick enough to get out the way and took a left on the end of his nose (this was the one that did my knuckle), when I got to the third one he was on his knees crying like a little baby pleading for me not to hit him, unfortunately I didnt hit the <deleted> which I do regret.
The young lad they were hitting suffered cuts, bruises and one broken tooth (I think that was about it) but unfortunately I was the only witness to the assault, none of the dozen or so people watching it saw anything, and I call them some lovely names.
This is why I have a very low opinion of mr and mrs normal!

you may have sunken knuckles...but you've obviously got bigger sphericals than me!!!!!!

Not really, it wasnt much of a contest, it was over in about 10 seconds!

 

[Domh245]

Nope, not really, the lad taking the pasting was the size of Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory, the 3 scummers giving him the hiding were all much bigger than him but smaller than me (not that it would have made much difference, the first they knew was when I caught one of them with a perfect right hook and he literally flew, the second saw it coming but wasnt quick enough to get out the way and took a left on the end of his nose (this was the one that did my knuckle), when I got to the third one he was on his knees crying like a little baby pleading for me not to hit him, unfortunately I didnt hit the <deleted> which I do regret.
The young lad they were hitting suffered cuts, bruises and one broken tooth (I think that was about it) but unfortunately I was the only witness to the assault, none of the dozen or so people watching it saw anything, and I call them some lovely names.
This is why I have a very low opinion of mr and mrs normal!

Not really, it wasnt much of a contest, it was over in about 10 seconds!

I doubt that many people would be willing to intervene in the same manner that you did. With this "sue if you trip" society, many people would be scared of helping out as 'physically' as you did. I'd hope that more people would be like myself and assist by fetching help, or at least verbally chastising the guilty party/parties, but I fear that there would be still be those that would rather not get involved at all.

 

[user15681]

I knew this thread was an omen. Just provided details for an incident.

 

[AlterEgo]

Could the police be given powers to force a statement and if nothing forthcoming, arrest the person? I'm talking off the top of my head here.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I sincerely hope not.

Imagine how a forced statement would stand up in court.

 

[34D]

About 3 years ago I apprehended a burglar. Got his bag full of whatever, he ran off, then called police who came quickly. We drove around and found him. I had letters about appearing in court as a witness but was never actually caught.

In hindsight I wish I'd restrained him.

 

[fowler9]

I got the 19:55 from Lime Street to West Allerton tonight and there was a lad on board who was going absolutely mental down the phone to his girlfriend. I wouldn't have had a moments doubt reporting him to anyone.

 

[DownSouth]

I got the 19:55 from Lime Street to West Allerton tonight and there was a lad on board who was going absolutely mental down the phone to his girlfriend. I wouldn't have had a moments doubt reporting him to anyone.

So did you report it, or are you just giving us an example of how it's very easy to say you'd do it from the safety of an anonymous website profile but hard to actually do it in real life?

 

[londiscape]

So did you report it, or are you just giving us an example of how it's very easy to say you'd do it from the safety of an anonymous website profile but hard to actually do it in real life?

Can't see much to report him for, given it was over the phone and not assaulting or harassing anyone on the train. Possible section 5 public order, maybe, depending on any foul language.

The way I read fowler9's post was that he would have been happy to report him or provide a statement had he actually escalated to violent conduct towards other persons on the train.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I and many others witnessed a terrible assault on the Southbury loop line. Not many people would give their details but I did. Probably because I felt guilty as I didn't stop the assault.

I had an interview at work and the case went to court, luckily I didn't have to attend and the bloke was sent to prison.

I was however concerned about appearing in person as I have to use this line daily and these idiots have a lot of idiotic friends.

 

[howittpie]

Yes I would and have done. About 3 years ago was on the Nottingham to Liverpool service the train manager had announced that a full ticket check would take place on departure including those passengers already on board as there had been a crew changeover. A guy just down the carriage refused to show a ticket and said he had been on from Peterborough. He became abusive to the train manager who handled it very well he left him and BTP met the train at Sheffield and they removed him. Was only to happy to give my details.

The BTP asked me to go there Manchester office the next day to make a statement and a while later recieved a letter to say he had pleaded guilty and recieved a custodial sentence. i would certainly do it again.

 

[AlterEgo]

A custodial sentence for being abusive? Was he inciting racism, or something?

 

[47802]

In truth I think it would depend on the circumstances, how serious the incident was and whether I felt the victim brought it upon themselves etc, with a preference not to get involved.

I agree that's not the proper thing to do, but is closer to the reality as to how I think I would behave in such an event.

 

[overtonchris]

A custodial sentence for being abusive? Was he inciting racism, or something?

Repeat offender?... on parole?....bound over?..... I'm absolutely no expert but all possible I would assume?

 

[fowler9]

So did you report it, or are you just giving us an example of how it's very easy to say you'd do it from the safety of an anonymous website profile but hard to actually do it in real life?

If he'd actually done anything apart from shouting down the phone and then crying I would have reported it. I kept one eye on the situation and decided it wasn't necessary.

 

[Flamingo]

Thanks for the replies, they have covered a lot of issues. I don't want to say too much about the incident, but one young girl gave her details. A dozen or so saw nothing.

This is in keeping with other incidents, in my experience - I've even known rail-staff (a driver in the incident I'm thinkng of) say they had seen nothing, and the incident had taken place a foot away from them, and audio recording had their voice talking to the perpetrator.

Another occasion, of the six names and numbers given to me, all were untraceable by BTP.

Having had false aligations made against me following on from an incident, it does discourage me from taking any action about antisocial behaviour, if the passengers who's comfort and safety I am trying to protect are unwilling to do anything to support my colleagues and I.

However, those that would be willing, thank you.

 

[Rich McLean]

I fear, sadly, that the average daily commuter would be unwilling to help out in such instances, as sadly they see it as a waste of their time

On a weekend however, you would more than likely receive witness statements. Also there are those who don't wish to give a statement in case the perpetrator recognized them doing so and didn't want to be at risk themselves

However, I had assisted train crew on a train before between Swindon and Reading for a passenger who needed medical attention. Re-assured that the casualty was breathing, just very intoxicated and asked if the TM if he could phone ahead to arrange paramedics to wait for the passenger on the platform Also helped by an off duty policeman, train still left Reading on Time and everyone happy.

But if I was asked to give a witness statement, I would, as that is what my employers would expect of me and nothing less.

 

[jon0844]

Many years ago, me and my dad were involved in an accident with a London bus - which swerved to avoid a car changing lane and clipped us as we were waiting to join the road (a dual carriageway).

It was the afternoon/evening rush hour. Everyone on the bus seemed to miraculously miss what happened and not notice the sudden swerve that would have chucked them all over the place, along with an impact, which was annoying as the bus driver was claiming we'd pulled out into his path.

The police turned up and it was quite obvious where we were, as the car was well behind the line and the bus bad simply taken our bumper clean off. The broken glass from the headlamps was also further proof that we hadn't just reversed or moved the bumper backwards etc.

An officer pointed out that we had no chance getting a witness when people wanted to get home. They wanted us to put up, shut up, and let them get on their way.

The same officer said that if it happened in the morning, there would be lots of witnesses who would be happy to get to work late and have an excuse (giving a statement to the police, doing my civil duty etc).

 

[The Snap]

Having given a witness statement in the past for a road traffic accident, and the subsequent messing around/days off work/trips to Magistrate's Court to give evidence to have the case adjourned twice, then returning for a third time to be told I was no longer required...I would say no, I probably wouldn't give a statement ever again!!