Trouble buying tickets BTH to KEN return

[jazzy]

I wonder if anyone can help me?
I'm attempting to buy tickets for a return journey from Bath to Kendal. I'd like to take the 1300 train on Friday 29th August from Bath which arrives at 1737 and on Sunday 31st August I'd like to take the 1817 from Kendal reaching Bath at 2351.
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/BTH/KEN/290814/1245/dep/310814/1445/last should show an outbound single for £58.15 and a return single for £66. I realise the return leg requires multiple tickets as it's not a valid route. However, when I try to buy the tickets the site fails to hand me over to a vendor and I can't for the life of me work out how to buy the tickets at the price shown. I've just been into the station and they gave me a price of £200 for the same journey which is more than I can afford.

Any clever people with bright ideas out there?

Thanks

 

[bb21]

You cannot buy these tickets. The £58.15 fare is what used to be called a Saver Half fare, which can only be purchased in conjunction with a ticket in the opposite direction. Because the £66 fare you were quoted in the opposite direction is composed of two separate fares rather than a through fare, this is not valid to combine with the first ticket.

The flexible £116.30 Off-Peak Return should be valid for both the outward and return journeys you would like to make, so you can just buy that. The Routeing Guide clearly shows that it is valid via Reading, so that is all you need to pay.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The system NRES uses to pass you over to a ticket selling website can't handle multiple ticket journeys, hence why you are having trouble.

On the NRES screen, if you click on "Other tickets", the screen should expand to show fare informtion. Using the information provided there and the cost of the tickets listed in the "Tickets" box, you should be able to work out what the tickets are. Bear in mind that the split points on NRES are usually stations where you change trains.

In this case the information for the first ticket is "must go via Banbury". As Banbury is between Wolverhampton and Reading we can suppose the ticket is Kendal to Reading. We can also see that it is an Off-Peak Single costing £49.90.

The information for the second ticket tells us we can only use First Great Western and that we must travel on the booked train. This tells us it is routed FGW Only, or similar. We can also see that it is an Advance Single costing £16.10.

Cross-referencing with BRFares reveals that the tickets could be....

• Kendal-Reading Off-Peak Single via Banbury' £49.90
• Reading-Bath Spa Advance Single 'Great Westn Only' £16.10

To buy these tickets, enter those parts of the journey separately and the required tickets should become available, in other words, book the outward trip, book the first part of the return trip, book the second part of the return trip and then pay for them in one go.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

....The flexible £116.30 Off-Peak Return should be valid for both the outward and return journeys you would like to make, so you can just buy that. The Routeing Guide clearly shows that it is valid via Reading, so that is all you need to pay.

The return journey doubles back through Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring & Streatley and Cholsey.

 

[bb21]

The return journey doubles back through Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring & Streatley and Cholsey.

Fair enough. I thought there was an easement allowing the doubleback. Either I remembered it wrong or it was removed accidentally with the latest release.

In that case, the OP can do this: get off the XC service at Oxford at 2208, then get the 2217 Paddington service and get off at Didcot at 2238. He can then board the final leg of his journey at Didcot at 2303 rather than Reading.

All valid now on the £116.30 ticket and avoids being ripped off in the way NRE suggested.

 

[jazzy]

Fantastic! So what am I specifically not allowed to do with the £116.30 ticket? Pass through Reading?

Thanks again!

 

[bb21]

You are not allowed to travel via Reading but you are allowed to travel via Didcot Parkway. You can still travel on the 1817 from Kendal and get back to Bath at the same time if you change at Oxford and Didcot Parkway as I explained a few posts upthread rather than Reading.

 

[jazzy]

You are not allowed to travel via Reading but you are allowed to travel via Didcot Parkway. You can still travel on the 1817 from Kendal and get back to Bath at the same time if you change at Oxford and Didcot Parkway as I explained a few posts upthread rather than Reading.

Thanks, I understood your route, I just wanted to be sure of what your route was steering me around.

 

[tony_mac]

Fair enough. I thought there was an easement allowing the doubleback. Either I remembered it wrong or it was removed accidentally with the latest release.

The easement is only for tickets routed 'not London'
A Swindon to Kendal ticket is routed 'not London', it would be valid from Bath Spa on the outward; then it would need an additional single from Swindon to Bath Spa on the return.

 

[bb21]

The easement is only for tickets routed 'not London'
A Swindon to Kendal ticket is routed 'not London', it would be valid from Bath Spa on the outward; then it would need an additional single from Swindon to Bath Spa on the return.

You would think that if they allow Not Via London ticket holders to double back, it would make sense for those holding tickets with additional validity to be allowed to do so too, but of course taking it at face value it doesn't happen like that.

 

[bkhtele]

Yes there was an easement allowing Swindon to Oxford etc to go via Reading (except where it said something like via Didcot parkway only) within the last 12 months. Is there anything we can do about it?

 

[bb21]

Yes there was an easement allowing Swindon to Oxford etc to go via Reading (except where it said something like via Didcot parkway only) within the last 12 months. Is there anything we can do about it?

Do you know when it was removed and for how long roughly it existed before that point in time?

 

[maniacmartin]

Are you sure you aren't getting confused with one of these easements?

000082 Journeys via Swindon and Didcot or via Swindon to Didcot and routed Not London may double back between Reading and Didcot. This easements applies in both directions.

700137 Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

700138 Customers travelling from Goring & Streatley or Pangbourne via Didcot
Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Not London' may travel via
Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

I've looked at the easements as of 30th July 2012 and nothing jumps out at me

 

[JonathanH]

Are you sure you aren't getting confused with one of these easements?

000082 Journeys via Swindon and Didcot or via Swindon to Didcot and routed Not London may double back between Reading and Didcot. This easements applies in both directions.

700137 Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

700138 Customers travelling from Goring & Streatley or Pangbourne via Didcot
Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Not London' may travel via
Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

I've looked at the easements as of 30th July 2012 and nothing jumps out at me

The problem is that these easements suit the routing descriptions used for FGW tickets (which are longstanding) eg Oxford to Bath Spa "Not Reading" and "Not London" but not those from further afield.

 

[furlong]

The first easement talks about your journey not being routed through London, so it could indeed be applied in your case?

(The third easement quoted shows a more restrictive form that depends on what's printed on the ticket.)

 

[bkhtele]

Sorry yes the 2nd one, I looked for it last night but couldn't find it

Are you sure you aren't getting confused with one of these easements?

000082 Journeys via Swindon and Didcot or via Swindon to Didcot and routed Not London may double back between Reading and Didcot. This easements applies in both directions.

700137 Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

700138 Customers travelling from Goring & Streatley or Pangbourne via Didcot
Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Not London' may travel via
Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

I've looked at the easements as of 30th July 2012 and nothing jumps out at me

 

[jazzy]

I feel I've stumbled into a game of Mornington Crescent here!
I assume the original advice of bi-passing Reading by changing at Oxford and Didcot still stands?

Thanks!

 

[bb21]

I feel I've stumbled into a game of Mornington Crescent here!
I assume the original advice of bi-passing Reading by changing at Oxford and Didcot still stands?

Thanks!

Yes, it still does. Changing at Oxford and Didcot is absolutely fine.

Conversations on here tend to develop in less obvious directions sometimes.

The first easement talks about your journey not being routed through London, so it could indeed be applied in your case?

(The third easement quoted shows a more restrictive form that depends on what's printed on the ticket.)

That's an interesting take on things.

Although with a realistic alternative for the OP changing at Didcot instead, I think that may be a better option than having to potentially argue with a guard about validity via Reading on what can be seen as a technicality.

 

[bkhtele]

So that I am clear & to improve my knowledge, is the agreed interpretion of 000082 easement that it has to say on the ticket "not london" for it to apply?

This does not seem logical when via London tickets from Bath & Swindon are more expensive. We are saying that a customer cannot choose the "not London" route and take advantage of a sensible easement which gives better connections owing to a number of services not stopping at Didcot. Is it then down to a guards discretion?

Are you sure you aren't getting confused with one of these easements?

000082 Journeys via Swindon and Didcot or via Swindon to Didcot and routed Not London may double back between Reading and Didcot. This easements applies in both directions.

700137 Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

700138 Customers travelling from Goring & Streatley or Pangbourne via Didcot
Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Not London' may travel via
Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

I've looked at the easements as of 30th July 2012 and nothing jumps out at me