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They have existed for some time, though in a more regulated form. There were Hamburg-Berlin coaches, for example, in the late 90s when I lived there, and there were also international services passing through. This was the sort of service that used the ZOB.
Bit of both. Your typical one is that you have an overall roof over your U-Bahn station which has a load of bus stops round the outside in an oval shape. Some are more architecturally interesting than others. Rarely are they just a collection of bus shelters, though.
You must revisit Durham soon. The bus station has pretty much become an enclosed 2020 version of Seaham Harbour, but with the added bonus of being too small, both on the concourse and for the buses. The place is awful.Enter or leave under the baleful glare of downtrodden drivers smoking outside the office on North Road, Dodge the buckets of leaking rainwater on the slippery floor, avoid the open drug dealing and belligerent local low lives whilst playing 'bus stand bingo' as your service jostles for a stand due to lack of layover and congestion. Facilities include a cafe that has been closed for 25 years or so, generally broken dot matrix info boards and a 'Tardis' style pay toilet that almost nobody dares use.Ranks alongside Peterlee and Alnwick amongst the worst in the North East. Peterlee has one unexpected saving grace during the day though, the bus station cafe is genuinely really good! (Could be an idea for a new thread?).
Sunderland is stylish, but it's so wind blasted and cold I reckon it could be used to store the new Covid vaccine. The ultra violet tubes in the toilets to discourage smackheads are an especial delight
I remember Durham from the 1980s. I mean, it's better now but it's desperately needing to be completely rebuilt. I think it's about c1977 vintage but even two refurbs still can't get away from that depressing late 70s vibe. It has been a couple of years since I last ventured there, I don't get back too often (especially now, obvs) but I know how awful it is. The cafe (which was Bimbis Fish and Chip Restaurant doing great chips with gravy, then someone else had it for the same thing) is a sad loss and the whole place is frankly dreadful.
Sunderland just boils my p*55 and for the reasons you state. I didn't mention the delights of the toilets - eyes burning with the stench of stale urine and industrial strength bleach as you enter plus the evocative half light from the UV bulbs. However, to built such a design of a bus station in Sunderland, not known for its Mediterranean climate, is just bonkers. Not withstanding, its location is on the edge of the city centre so near . Seriously, I'd flatten it and build student flats on it (obviously keeping the Metro station), and after that compulsory purchase some of Brougham Street to create a smaller bus station there, close to the shopping area, train and metro stations.
Another one to add to the grotty "Gone but not Missed" list was the former Alder Valley built Reading Bus Station. Built in the 1970s at the bottom of Station Hill, it was another classic "Celebration Of Concrete" with a bingo hall plonked on the top. It was dark, often rather smelly, cramped and a rather unpleasant place to be with little to no waiting facilities or passenger comforts. It had been closed by 2008, resurrected in 2010 as part of the Reading Remodelling Project - which thankfully saw better lighting added, the removal of the saw tooth bays, and a new through layout created. But it still wasn't a particularly pleasant place to be, not helped by it's connection onto Garrad Street (one of the worst streets in Reading and known for it's various drug related issues). Thankfully it was dispensed with in 2014 and rapidly (and thankfully) since demolished as part of the Station Hill program.
Newcastle (and the North East) has had some absolute horror Bus Stations considering it's a hotbed of Public Transport use. I'd add Bishop Auckland to that list!
You could argue Newcastle Haymarket could be on the list FOUR times
The original.bus station where buses can't overtake one another and very cramped. The pre M&S Bus Station which was exposed and had the timetable displays at giraffe height. The temporary bus station while the new bus station was being built (in a similar vein to the original Haymarket, but with scaffolding and corrigated iron) and then current one which despite being enclosed is just as cold and draughty as what it replaced. Least it has a Greggs though...
Too young to remember Haymarket 1, but my reference was to H2 and I do remember H3 (the temp one) though I know it was only an interim structure. Bishop has always been a windswept soulless place (and not just the bus station). Even now, I can stand there and it feels like a United National will appear at any moment, spewing black smoke and ready to whisk me off at break neck speed to Darlington!
Another pair of long gone NE bus stations were Consett and Stanley from the 1980s. Tough to find photos that truly show them but a couple from Flickr>
Stanley was a standard saw tooth affair which was basic and bleak; to be honest, the bus station that replaced it isn't much better, albeit slightly shinier!!!
Consett on the other hand was newer but built in a circular arrangement with a concourse that had also sorts of dark corners. Truly a crime ridden pit and genuinely uneasy waiting for a bus there!
They have existed for some time, though in a more regulated form. There were Hamburg-Berlin coaches, for example, in the late 90s when I lived there, and there were also international services passing through. This was the sort of service that used the ZOB.
Bit of both. Your typical one is that you have an overall roof over your U-Bahn station which has a load of bus stops round the outside in an oval shape. Some are more architecturally interesting than others. Rarely are they just a collection of bus shelters, though.
Spot on. Think it's also important to highlight that Europe isn't some homogenous bloc; Germany is excellent whilst other countries are less so; even in the Netherlands, there's a difference between somewhere like Maastricht (rather basic affair) compared to Utrecht though the latter is a much larger place and at a pivotal point in the whole rail network.
Seeking to juxtapose @Bletchleyite , here is a really lousy one. I know he'll appreciate some Arriva fleet.... ps this is a European capital city!!
I remember Durham from the 1980s. I mean, it's better now but it's desperately needing to be completely rebuilt. I think it's about c1977 vintage but even two refurbs still can't get away from that depressing late 70s vibe. It has been a couple of years since I last ventured there, I don't get back too often (especially now, obvs) but I know how awful it is. The cafe (which was Bimbis Fish and Chip Restaurant doing great chips with gravy, then someone else had it for the same thing) is a sad loss and the whole place is frankly dreadful.
Sunderland just boils my p*55 and for the reasons you state. I didn't mention the delights of the toilets - eyes burning with the stench of stale urine and industrial strength bleach as you enter plus the evocative half light from the UV bulbs. However, to built such a design of a bus station in Sunderland, not known for its Mediterranean climate, is just bonkers. Not withstanding, its location is on the edge of the city centre so near . Seriously, I'd flatten it and build student flats on it (obviously keeping the Metro station), and after that compulsory purchase some of Brougham Street to create a smaller bus station there, close to the shopping area, train and metro stations.
I never experienced Reading in use but did pop in and take a series of photos in its derelict phase, still with NBC era signage. Horrific place.
Too young to remember Haymarket 1, but my reference was to H2 and I do remember H3 (the temp one) though I know it was only an interim structure. Bishop has always been a windswept soulless place (and not just the bus station). Even now, I can stand there and it feels like a United National will appear at any moment, spewing black smoke and ready to whisk me off at break neck speed to Darlington!
Another pair of long gone NE bus stations were Consett and Stanley from the 1980s. Tough to find photos that truly show them but a couple from Flickr>
Stanley was a standard saw tooth affair which was basic and bleak; to be honest, the bus station that replaced it isn't much better, albeit slightly shinier!!!
Consett on the other hand was newer but built in a circular arrangement with a concourse that had also sorts of dark corners. Truly a crime ridden pit and genuinely uneasy waiting for a bus there!
This later passed to OK Travel. To N.E. Bus Breakers, Annfield Plain for scrap 07.95
www.flickr.com
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Spot on. Think it's also important to highlight that Europe isn't some homogenous bloc; Germany is excellent whilst other countries are less so; even in the Netherlands, there's a difference between somewhere like Maastricht (rather basic affair) compared to Utrecht though the latter is a much larger place and at a pivotal point in the whole rail network.
Seeking to juxtapose @Bletchleyite , here is a really lousy one. I know he'll appreciate some Arriva fleet.... ps this is a European capital city!!View attachment 85928
Regarding Marlborough Crescent, I just caught the end of this station when on the 601/602 Hexham service in 1985, the bus pens were very narrow and no one ever got on there, some drivers just missed it out. I think we were the only operator using it then.
Another memory, the current Haymarket, when it first opened the glass panels used to fall out, so they did a temporary repair by putting in nets to catch them, this turned it into a kind of semi permanent twilight, took ages to sort out. IIRC Marks and Spencer paid for the station, or at least some of the costs.
Spot on. Think it's also important to highlight that Europe isn't some homogenous bloc; Germany is excellent whilst other countries are less so; even in the Netherlands, there's a difference between somewhere like Maastricht (rather basic affair) compared to Utrecht though the latter is a much larger place and at a pivotal point in the whole rail network.
But looking at the picture @Bletchleyite showed, you could say that's a "basic affair". However, does it actually do the job well? Maybe as good as, or even maybe even better than, a multi-million pound British bus station that is not as convenient for the station as the one in the picture. Assuming there are no roads to cross? Hard to tell from the picture. There's a bike park there too, which is a bonus, which is probably not often found at a state of the art British bus station.
Agree with that. I once missed my bus at Horsham as a result of it departing from the wrong stand without any warning, because the stand it was timetabled to use was constantly being taken by other buses!
But looking at the picture @Bletchleyite showed, you could say that's a "basic affair". However, does it actually do the job well? Maybe as good as, or even maybe even better than, a multi-million pound British bus station that is not as convenient for the station as the one in the picture. Assuming there are no roads to cross? Hard to tell from the picture. There's a bike park there too, which is a bonus, which is probably not often found at a state of the art British bus station.
As has been explained already, bus stations do different roles in different countries.
For a bus station outside a regional rail or metro station where bus feeders operate frequently, you won't need an all singing affair but something more akin to a P&R site with some basic amenities e.g. toilets, some shelter etc.
In the UK, our bus services are slightly different if only because they have to perform a role that sits between local bus and either long distance coach or rail. Passenger waiting times are longer and so enhanced facilities are preferable. Even in the UK, it depends on individual circumstances. Drawing a parallel with rail stations, they didn't elect to rebuild Manchester Victoria by removing the trainshed and just have a few shelters, did they? Meanwhile, Windsor Central which was some delightfully huge Victorian affair is now much more modest affair. Horses for courses.
Are there some overly specified, over blown bus facilities in the UK? Yes. Are there some places that haven't got bus stations but would benefit from them? Yes. Is it a precise science, a binary yes/no, right/wrong? No.
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Regarding Marlborough Crescent, I just caught the end of this station when on the 601/602 Hexham service in 1985, the bus pens were very narrow and no one ever got on there, some drivers just missed it out. I think we were the only operator using it then.
Another memory, the current Haymarket, when it first opened the glass panels used to fall out, so they did a temporary repair by putting in nets to catch them, this turned it into a kind of semi permanent twilight, took ages to sort out. IIRC Marks and Spencer paid for the station, or at least some of the costs.
Marlborough Crescent was still going until about 1988 though it was almost derelict. To be honest, it was mainly a calling in point by that point for Northern services heading to Eldon Square, mainly the Derwentside routes and stuff from Winlaton and along the Scotswood road. The only actual services there were Wright Bros with their Alston service, and Primrose maintained a cabin there for their Blackpool and tours/excursions work. The Chronicle reckon it closed in 1983 but suspect that was when Northern pulled out as United were definitely still there til 1986.
Agree with that. I once missed my bus at Horsham as a result of it departing from the wrong stand without any warning, because the stand it was timetabled to use was constantly being taken by other buses!
One thing Bletchley (which I criticised above) does right is have a couple of spare stands which are signed as such just in case that happens, and are adjacent to the stands normally used by the 5/6 which are the high frequency services most likely to use them.
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But looking at the picture @Bletchleyite showed, you could say that's a "basic affair". However, does it actually do the job well? Maybe as good as, or even maybe even better than, a multi-million pound British bus station that is not as convenient for the station as the one in the picture. Assuming there are no roads to cross? Hard to tell from the picture. There's a bike park there too, which is a bonus, which is probably not often found at a state of the art British bus station.
Usually to reach a bus station like that it'd be a zebra crossing over the roadway. FWIW it slightly reminds me of Wythenshawe as-was due to the shape (as does a lot of suburban Hamburg generally, though it is at least better looked after!)
Chatham "Waterfront", which was brand new at the time this thread started. It’s open air (I’m not a big fan of open air bus stations), located too far from a lot of the shops, not covered well by the roofs, the passenger info screens don’t work half the time, the travel centre is always closed, and 4 of the stops are completely outside the bus station. Arrivas mediocre services don’t help either but that’s for another thread.
The old Chatham bus station was considered to be very grotty and dirty, but it was located well, inside the Pentagon shopping centre closer to all the shops. It should have been refurbished instead
I don't find it that bad. You are right about it being a 'fair weather' bus station but I have found the information screens pretty good, although a lot depends on having real-time information available. Equally I thought that the Travel Office was pretty good - too large but had a good stock of timetables for different operators, difficult to get otherwise, and I never found them closed when they should have been open. Sadly it closed for Covid-19 and isn't going to re-open.
Regarding the Pentagon, the disadvantage of refurbishing the old bus station was that it was dependent on the Pentagon shopping centre being there, its not that much of a magnet. Also, because of the structure, there was one single way in and one single way out so you might see buses arriving late at their stand because they've been queuing behind several others .
Stand C and D are used by those independent companies that dare to challenge the Arriva monopoly (and, I think, one stop is for arriving buses only).
A grimmer alternative is to found in Sittingbourne. Not a Bus Station but a Bus Hub (which I think probably means 'don't expect facilities'). Last time I went (summer), it was awaiting completion, which seems to have taken ages. It is no real improvement on the one it replaced. Seems to be permanently inhabited by plastic barriers to mark off sections needing repair/ development, some knocked over. Sometimes 2 or 3 buses pull in at the same stand (great planning) so there is a rush to get on the right bus, inevitably the last in will be late and so keen to get out. Timetables for some operators are absent. And irritatingly although both Arriva and Stagecoach buses serve Faversham, only Arriva start from the Bus Hub while Stagecoach start at the Rail Station.
That's Ljubljana in Slovenia! It's opposite the train station but that's where all your inter-urban services leave. I was waiting for the Airport service (which is actually just the local bus that happens to terminate at the airport).
That's Ljubljana in Slovenia! It's opposite the train station but that's where all your inter-urban services leave. I was waiting for the Airport service (which is actually just the local bus that happens to terminate at the airport).
I recall seeing something similar in Krakow (I think) but it was a coach rather than bus station. Eastern Europe doesn't quite do it like the Germans but I think has an ambition to do so so we will see improvements.
I think a lot of posters on here are missing the point. Most people don’t care if there’s a nice cafe or toilets in a bus station, they just want to feel safe catching a bus, but too many stations have become a haven for alkies and druggies. Beef up security and passengers might return.
I think a lot of posters on here are missing the point. Most people don’t care if there’s a nice cafe or toilets in a bus station, they just want to feel safe catching a bus, but too many stations have become a haven for alkies and druggies. Beef up security and passengers might return.
You raise a good point but people want both of those things. It should be somewhere safe from feral kids and the local p*ss artists on the white cider at 9am (see Newport bus station) but also free from the elements. Decent toilets that are well kept and don't have needles in them is not asking too much; a 20p-50p charge is usually sufficient to ward off most wrong-uns. If you then have some facilities like a cafe and a shop and some security then that would also make the ambiance better by dissuading the ne'er do wells from hanging around.
It's not all bad - I've done the Riverside Parkrun and that's quite a pleasant whip along the river (obvs ).
However, take your point; it's not the best city in the world and not a great place to wait for a bus. Last time I was there (in August), the early hour and the pandemic meant the bus station was pretty quiet. When I returned that afternoon, the "Stagecoach half" had about 6-8 "knights of the road" ernestly discussing something at high volume, fuelled by a mix of cider and turps, with lots of Fs and Cs being liberally bandied about.
Decent toilets that are well kept and don't have needles in them is not asking too much; a 20p-50p charge is usually sufficient to ward off most wrong-uns. If you then have some facilities like a cafe and a shop and some security then that would also make the ambiance better by dissuading the ne'er do wells from hanging around.
Grantham bus station wouldn't fit that criteria anymore. The council closed the public toilets there many years ago, when they redeployed the full time attendant. The information office closed about twenty years ago. Various shop or café units in the adjacent shopping centre have come and gone over the years, mainly forced out by the site owners (Morrisons). Ok, so it has shelters to wait in, but a lack of information available means it can be a gamble which stand your bus actually departs from.
Couldn't agree more. Having once decided to take a day trip over from Bristol on the X7 "Severn Express" bus (which I believe has since ceased operation), within an hour of arriving, I was rewarded with witnessing two security guards restraining a rowdy, foul-mouthed shoplifter outside Poundland in the shopping centre.
But yeah, wasn't at all impressed by the cold, bleak Market Square bus station either!
I think a lot of posters on here are missing the point. Most people don’t care if there’s a nice cafe or toilets in a bus station, they just want to feel safe catching a bus, but too many stations have become a haven for alkies and druggies. Beef up security and passengers might return.
What "feels" safer (even if it isn't actually safer statistically)? Catching a bus from the roadside on a busy city centre street, or a warm, indoor bus station with 24 hour security?
Pudsey bus station in leeds. Its 6 stands but its grander than it needs to be and has ruined the market by taking over more space than it needed.
It could have been as useful and practical for less money and less space.
If you want to start a fight on Pudsey social media, the bus station is a great place to start.
Personally, I think they were stuck with the access, size and shape of the site, with limited options plus they were still using bendy buses (Ftrs) on the 4.
There’s a desire from some quarters to get rid of it (and one proposal is to replace it with bus stops in lay bys on Church Lane) but I just don’t think that some people realise what they will lose for what will become 30-50 parking spaces. Going to be fun turning services without the bus station and it wasn’t that long ago that the 16 turned at Dawson’s Corner by New Pudsey station.
You raise a good point but people want both of those things. It should be somewhere safe from feral kids and the local p*ss artists on the white cider at 9am (see Newport bus station) but also free from the elements. Decent toilets that are well kept and don't have needles in them is not asking too much; a 20p-50p charge is usually sufficient to ward off most wrong-uns. If you then have some facilities like a cafe and a shop and some security then that would also make the ambiance better by dissuading the ne'er do wells from hanging around.
Regarding charging for bogs I do agree with this, but what I have found, er, inconvenient, is not having the right change. Good to accept contactless these days.
Grantham bus station wouldn't fit that criteria anymore. The council closed the public toilets there many years ago, when they redeployed the full time attendant. The information office closed about twenty years ago. Various shop or café units in the adjacent shopping centre have come and gone over the years, mainly forced out by the site owners (Morrisons). Ok, so it has shelters to wait in, but a lack of information available means it can be a gamble which stand your bus actually departs from.
Those of you mentioning Durham - something is FINALLY being done about it - it is being rebuilt over the next couple of years. However, the improvements do nothing about increasing capacity, the bus forecourt will be largely unchanged, meaning the jostling for a stand and sudden dashing over to a different stand will continue. but the bus station building itself is to be demolished and rebuilt. Time will tell whether it will work though, for such an amazing city, the bus station gives a poor first impression, especially if there are queues out the door, which is regular at busy times or when there is disruption.
I agree with the Sunderland comments though, it’s too cold and a bit too far from the main shopping area, although it is MUCH improved over both the old Park Lane bus station and the fume-infested indoor hellhole that was the Bridges bus station.
I remember Durham from the 1980s. I mean, it's better now but it's desperately needing to be completely rebuilt. I think it's about c1977 vintage but even two refurbs still can't get away from that depressing late 70s vibe. It has been a couple of years since I last ventured there, I don't get back too often (especially now, obvs) but I know how awful it is. The cafe (which was Bimbis Fish and Chip Restaurant doing great chips with gravy, then someone else had it for the same thing) is a sad loss and the whole place is frankly dreadful.
I remember Durham from about '85 onwards, plu Bimbi's as well! Often it would be after returning from a day somewhere far away on the train and therefore often dark, the really dull atmosphere gave it character in my eyes. Then the refurbs happened in an effort to make it brighter and more airy and it became a pretty soulless place to me, especially when pretty much all the adjoining shops were shuttered up save for the newsagent.
That's what makes Durham a strange one for me, normally what they had done to it would be an improvement but I much preferred the way it used to be.
I nominate Lichfield. From Google Streetview it looks like the shelters have had a coat of Arriva (previous) corporate paint since I was there, but it has all the ambience of a supermarket car park in some forgotten corner of a forgotten land.
I nominate Lichfield. From Google Streetview it looks like the shelters have had a coat of Arriva (previous) corporate paint since I was there, but it has all the ambience of a supermarket car park in some forgotten corner of a forgotten land.
I feel I have to defend Lichfield as, whilst it was the only time I've visited it, it was a wonderful staging post during the Midlands preserved bus run in August with plenty of space to park up numerous vehicles. Whilst I suspect most of it's usual users don't appreciate this; it is surprising how few location can accommodate something like this nowadays!
I feel I have to defend Lichfield as, whilst it was the only time I've visited it, it was a wonderful staging post during the Midlands preserved bus run in August with plenty of space to park up numerous vehicles. Whilst I suspect most of it's usual users don't appreciate this; it is surprising how few location can accommodate something like this nowadays!
It is the only defence available to Lichfield. To be honest, such is the paucity of bus services in Staffordshire on a Sunday, you have quite a number of options available in the county; you could have Cannock to yourself. I was in Lichfield bus station a few weeks ago and it has not changed one iota since I first went there c.1996. Contrast 1986 with 2017....
As if!...Not much happening in Lichfield Bus Station in this 2017 view as a Central Buses Optare Solo and Midland Classic Wright bodied Scania wait to do their next journey.
I think a lot of posters on here are missing the point. Most people don’t care if there’s a nice cafe or toilets in a bus station, they just want to feel safe catching a bus, but too many stations have become a haven for alkies and druggies. Beef up security and passengers might return.
People are going to base their decision on the use they make of a bus station and, for them, accessibility might be important if they have mobility issues, having clean toilets might be important for those of a certain age or with medical issues; the safety issue might be less important because they have never felt unsafe as they only use the bus station during shopping hours when the alkies and druggies have got other places to go. My nearest bus station is Canterbury, no alkies or druggies when I go there (almost invariably during the day) nothing much to do with the bus station but because they can find more comfortable seating and more privacy elsewhere. OK, a bit to do with the bus station, the fairly uncomfortable seating. (It is also well used.)
To be honest most people have commented on how derelict a bus station is and that, I would say, leads people to feel unsafe. I, for one, would prefer to walk to the next stop if a bus station was run down and rubbish strewn and I had the time. Even walk round the block. The ambience does lead to safety concerns even if they are unwarranted.
To be honest, such is the paucity of bus services in Staffordshire on a Sunday, you have quite a number of options available in the county; you could have Cannock to yourself.
When I saw the title of the thread, I thought about Cannock, but as I haven't been for many years, I thought it might have improved - clearly not! I never got over exited about Hednesford or Rugeley either.
When I saw the title of the thread, I thought about Cannock, but as I haven't been for many years, I thought it might have improved - clearly not! I never got over exited about Hednesford or Rugeley either.
This dates from April 2011 and the rather skanky old bus station that used to exist, all now swept away with the new Tesco. Arriva 1344 R344TJW was a rather ageing Dart.
Arriva Midlands VDL SB200 Wright Pulsar 2 FL63DWV 3795, Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Urban FJ58HYW 3912 and VDL SB200 Wright Pulsar 2 YJ59BVB 3743 working route 25 Pye Green circular (clockwise), route 74 Cannock bus station to Stafford General Hospital and route 60 Cannock bus station to...
www.flickr.com
Rugeley - the entrance to the town is via a grim precinct obscured by the bus on the right. Note that there were timetables inside the shelters but that's now been sorted - nothing there now!
Arriva Midlands Alexander Dennis ADL Pointer FJ55BWB 2372 and Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Urban KE07EVY 3929 working route 63 Rugeley bus station to Cannock bus station and route 825 Stafford Gaol Square bus station to Lichfield bus station
Thanks for the update. Hednesford - 'Rather skanky old bus station', excellent summary as I remember. I suppose the best that can be said about Rugeley Bus Station is that it fits in with its immediate surroundings.
To be honest most people have commented on how derelict a bus station is and that, I would say, leads people to feel unsafe. I, for one, would prefer to walk to the next stop if a bus station was run down and rubbish strewn and I had the time. Even walk round the block. The ambience does lead to safety concerns even if they are unwarranted.
Even a fancy bus station can feel unsafe. It doesn't matter whether it is brand new and is brightly lit. What if there are not many people there or there are some people behaving in an anti-social manner? Better to wait for a bus on the street.
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