Trivia: Worst branding elements used for a public transport service

[John Luxton]

I wonder where they run…

Sprinter implies fast acceleration compared to 1st generation DMUs, many of which couldn’t reach 75mph, but surely Pacer implies slow or tread carefully etc!

We had Cumfybus on Merseyside

 

[Ken H]

There was a row about a campaign in West yorkshire where they had an advert in 2' high letters saying 'Put your b*m on a bus', where the * has a heart. Considered in bad taste.

 

[dk1]

How about anything involving Jimmy Savile?

But that advertising worked very well at the time along with those using Gary Glitter.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just out of curiosity how long did the ‘one’ brand actually last for?

Believe it was for 4 years between 2004 and 2008.

It might have been forgotten had it not appeared in an episode of "To the Manor Born", filmed at Maiden Newton station

If I'm not mistaken, the poster in the background has been pixelated in recent re-runs of the particular episode.

 

[mlambeuk]

Friendly low fares, maybe friendly but the fares aren't low.

 

[Donny_m]

British Airways probably tops them both for well known branding if you consider air 'public transport' (it is by most definitions).

Globally recognised and has only progressively (rather than radically) changed since 1974 (apart from the dodgy tailfins for a few years).

Their branding and advertising has won countless awards.

I completely disagree here, if we’re talking logos. I didn’t even know what the BA logo was and I was just sat on one for 8 hours, had to google it it’s a bent over bit of ribbon looking thing.

You show that without the text to 100 people you would be lucky to get 5 who know what it is. You show the Roundel to anyone and they’ll recognise it, there’s bars and cafe’s the world over using it in their logo.

British airways doesn’t have any form of unique branding whatsoever, their font and colour palette are widely used and their logo is completely unrecognisable without the text underneath.

 

[Ken H]

What is incredible life the BR logo has had. Designed by Gerry Barney of the BR Design Research Unit in 1964 its still in use to identify stations, on road signs and in the National Rail Enquiries website.

 

[mrcheek]

If I'm not mistaken, the poster in the background has been pixelated in recent re-runs of the particular episode.

It has indeed. But was unaltered on the DVD release

 

[davetheguard]

Citybeam on South Eastern 707s. What on earth is that all about?

For me, I think the very worst branding mistake was getting rid of "Intercity". Everyone knew what the brand stood for and it was so successful that it was widely used on the continent too.

After privatisation Great Western kept it for a couple of years, everyone else got rid of it. However, it seems like EMR have brought it back on Meridians, albeit without a buffet, so I'm not sure that would have counted as Intercity (or InterCity or INTERCITY) under B.R's meaning of the brand.

 

[BeijingDave]

I completely disagree here, if we’re talking logos. I didn’t even know what the BA logo was and I was just sat on one for 8 hours, had to google it it’s a bent over bit of ribbon looking thing.

You show that without the text to 100 people you would be lucky to get 5 who know what it is. You show the Roundel to anyone and they’ll recognise it, there’s bars and cafe’s the world over using it in their logo.

British airways doesn’t have any form of unique branding whatsoever, their font and colour palette are widely used and their logo is completely unrecognisable without the text underneath.

I suppose it's all down to what sticks in your memory, but their logo is the 'Speedbird' (updated and stylised), which is also their callsign and their advertising has always been superb...

I see what you mean if you're talking about London Underground's roundel, it is highly recognisable.

I have always admired BA's branding, though, even as a rail fan. Their actual service, of course, falls somewhat short.

 

[Mikey C]

A silly, rather than terrible bit of branding to me was First Capital Connect on the Thameslink services, which completely downplayed the Thameslink name, which is the name of the service being operated

 

[mmh]

Also on Thameslink, the silly little CityFlyer and CityMetro logos on the front ends, which given there was no wording on them and were both used all over the network was probably only ever "understood" by staff or enthusiasts.

 

[Jim the Jim]

I completely disagree here, if we’re talking logos. I didn’t even know what the BA logo was and I was just sat on one for 8 hours, had to google it it’s a bent over bit of ribbon looking thing.

You show that without the text to 100 people you would be lucky to get 5 who know what it is. You show the Roundel to anyone and they’ll recognise it, there’s bars and cafe’s the world over using it in their logo.

British airways doesn’t have any form of unique branding whatsoever, their font and colour palette are widely used and their logo is completely unrecognisable without the text underneath.

Yeah, people will recognise the BA logo because it almost always incorporates the words "British Airways". Same with National Express, where the logo is just the name. So I think things like the double arrow and the TfL roundel can be considered more memorable because people will recognise them regardless of whether any text is present.

 

[TheSeeker]

Regarding Thameslink 2000. When I worked at BT it was forbidden to use a date in the project name after the "BT21CN" (21st Century Network) was delayed. Anything that mentioned New or Next Generation was also not allowed as it would eventually be obsolete.

The best car related one I've heard is the Toyota MR2 being named differently in French speaking countries as it would be pronounced merde.

 

[mirodo]

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind having three different coloured/sized “n” logos on Northern’s fleet, as per this picture?

Northern Trains - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[BeijingDave]

Yeah, people will recognise the BA logo because it almost always incorporates the words "British Airways". Same with National Express, where the logo is just the name. So I think things like the double arrow and the TfL roundel can be considered more memorable because people will recognise them regardless of whether any text is present.

I think you look at this from the perspective of rail enthusiasts, not transport enthusiasts or general public.

National Express also had a highly recognisable logo for many years.

Also, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with incorporating your wordmark in your logo. Coca-Cola is probably the world's most recognised logo. Would anyone say it's not a good logo because it is a wordmark?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind having three different coloured/sized “n” logos on Northern’s fleet, as per this picture?

Northern Trains - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I think they're sort of meant to be balloons or similar. It's just a stylistic point. A bit like the "truncated" repetition of the "Ox" part of the Oxford Bus Company logo onto the wheelarch, say.

Unfortunately the designer failed to notice that they also represented sad faces or unlucky "upside down" horseshoes.

 

[Gloster]

The best car related one I've heard is the Toyota MR2 being named differently in French speaking countries as it would be pronounced merde.

The company formed in 1960 by Jack Brabham and Ron Tauranac was called Motor Racing Developments. It quickly changed its racing name to Brabham because of the way French commentators pronounced the initials.

I would have thought MR2 would come out as emmerdeur, which roughly means ‘irritating little creep’.

 

[Donny_m]

Also, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with incorporating your wordmark in your logo. Coca-Cola is probably the world's most recognised logo. Would anyone say it's not a good logo because it is a wordmark?

We’re talking about memorable ‘branding’ which includes Font and colour choice. BA and Nat Ex don’t really have many unique or copywrited branding aspects.

If Coca Cola had used a regular off the shelf font, then it is not ‘branding’ as another word in another colour wouldn’t have any link to Coca Cola, whereas you would recognise another word in Coca Cola or Disney font because they own the trademark to that font as part of their branding.

Brand power is when you can recognise something without text purely for a colour or font choice. E.G Cadbury’s own their shade of purple. Show someone that oriole along with white and they will think Cadbury’s.

 

[Merle Haggard]

On the subject of unfortunate initials.

Perhaps it was an urban myth, but I was told by an old hand on the Western Region that the Swansea Harbour Trust (had locos that worked on the docks and carried the company initials - later taken over by the G.W.R.) initially had also had the word 'Improvements' in their title, more accurately describing their activities. And the livery was brown...

 

[Statto]

Also on Thameslink, the silly little CityFlyer and CityMetro logos on the front ends, which given there was no wording on them and were both used all over the network was probably only ever "understood" by staff or enthusiasts.

Have to say, CityFlyer is something you could well find running at Cheltenham Races & such.

 

[ejstubbs]

The company formed in 1960 by Jack Brabham and Ron Tauranac was called Motor Racing Developments. It quickly changed its racing name to Brabham because of the way French commentators pronounced the initials.

I would have thought MR2 would come out as emmerdeur, which roughly means ‘irritating little creep’.

My Dad worked for many years for the National Coal Board: first in the Mining Research Establishment based in the old Isleworth Studios, and then in the 1970s in the Mining Research and Development Establishment at Bretby near Burton-on-Trent. In his latter role he did quite a lot of information sharing and general liaison work with coal mining organisations in other EU states, and he reported that his French counterparts definitely found the abbreviation for his organisation quite amusing.

 

[mlambeuk]

Rider York (forerunner to First York) "Flagship service" and their slogan "First class service first time every time"

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The GM cars sold in the Irish Republic (though not in Northern Ireland), and their dealers, are all branded Opel as well, though of course right hand drive.

Also under EU law (remember that?) it was possible to go to a dealership in say Rotterdam, and order a UK-spec car. As prices were lower on the continent, there was a trend for doing this in the 2000s. In theory you could also order a Continental-spec car from a UK dealership, but unless you were a Dane avoiding their high taxes there was little point in doing so.

For other manufacturers, the car you got would be basically the same as one you could order at home, apart from maybe coming with air-con as standard when UK cars didn't- such as if it had been destined for Malta or Cyprus for example. For Vauxhall/Opel however any vehicle bought outside the UK is branded as an Opel regardless of where the driver sits. I remember reading about a British motoring journalist living in Germany who ordered an Opel Omega, but then through his connections managed to visit the Opel factory where all Omegas were built, and have all the branding on his car switched to Vauxhall. He claimed this to be the only LHD Vauxhall Omega in the world.

Back on topic:

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind having three different coloured/sized “n” logos on Northern’s fleet, as per this picture?

Northern Trains - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yeah, that's poor branding too, in my view. They look like frown emojis, especially the yellow ones. On a personal level I really can't abide most examples of "all lower-case" branding that seems to be trendy at the moment. I guess it's meant to evoke "friendly, down-to-earth and approachable" but it usually feels phoney and a bit patronising. That's just me though.

 

[al78]

I seem to recall Virgin West Coast had an "arrive awesome" phrase, which I could never relate to. During the period I used their service it was perfectly reasonable, but awesome is very much overstating it.

 

[dk1]

I seem to recall Virgin West Coast had an "arrive awesome" phrase, which I could never relate to. During the period I used their service it was perfectly reasonable, but awesome is very much overstating it.

And far too American for my liking.

 

[duncanp]

Not rail related, but when the energy company Powergen set up an Italian subsidiary they called it.......

Powergen Italia

whinch caused a lot of sniggering amongst English speakers

 

[davetheguard]

On the subject of unfortunate initials.

Perhaps it was an urban myth, but I was told by an old hand on the Western Region that the Swansea Harbour Trust (had locos that worked on the docks and carried the company initials - later taken over by the G.W.R.) initially had also had the word 'Improvements' in their title, more accurately describing their activities. And the livery was brown...

I don't think they were aware of brands in those days! Another example of unfortunate initials was the narrow gauge Weston Clevedon & Portishead Railway which was the subject of a few sniggers (WC & P). There's also the very scenic Centrovalli line from Switzerland to Italy which is operated by a company with the Italian initials FART.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think they were aware of brands in those days! Another example of unfortunate initials was the narrow gauge Weston Clevedon & Portishead Railway which was the subject of a few sniggers (WC & P). There's also the very scenic Centrovalli line from Switzerland to Italy which is operated by a company with the Italian initials FART.

Sadly the trains only have Ssif on them, which I think may be German but I forget what it stands for. Plenty of diesel buses (appropriately) with the Italian version on them, though.

 

[AM9]

I'd disagree here. The National Bus / Express logo is probably only second to the BR double arrow as the most known public transport branding ever in Britain.

Apart from the LT roundel which despite being confined to the home counties, is pretty well identifiable throughout the country.