Trivia: TOCs operating completely separated networks

[A S Leib]

I think there's been a thread on this before, but I can't find it; which examples have there been of TOCs operating networks which don't have any stations in common? I'm asking as the Tyne and Wear Metro closure between Monument and Pelaw means that the Metro currently fits that definition.

Other examples I can think of are South Western (no rail between the Island Line and the remainder of the system) and the London Overground (Liberty / Upminster – Romford and Weaver / Lea Valley lines not having any Overground stations also served by other Overground lines). This might be a short list either way, but I'd count temporary / engineering work closures as well, such as Northern's north east services being separate from everything else during Tyne Valley closures.

 

[Purple Train]

Would First Capital Connect's operations through what is now the Thameslink core and suburban services out of King's Cross count, or did the connection from St Pancras to Finsbury Park exist in regular use back then?

 

[A S Leib]

Plymouth and Cornwall in early 2014 due to the Dawlish sea wall collapse would be an example for GWR; I'd guess that branch lines were operating as normal, but I don't know what services were operating between Plymouth and Penzance.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Would First Capital Connect's operations through what is now the Thameslink core and suburban services out of King's Cross count, or did the connection from St Pancras to Finsbury Park exist in regular use back then?

No. The Canal Tunnels did not open until 2018. FCC, and later TSGN, had run both routes since 2006.

Great Western's West Ealing to Greenford service has no statoins in common with any other GWR services - plenty of GWR trains pass through West Ealing but none call there.

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Weaver / Lea Valley lines not having any Overground stations also served by other Overground lines).

Hackney Downs and Hackney Central are conneceted and esentially one station now.

The Lea Valley Line (Stratford - Tottenham Hale - Cheshunt) is not an Overground line but still run by Greater Anglia

 

[Kilopylae]

This is a great idea for a thread, have watched! - though I don't have any good answers. I was wondering whether Wessex Trains maybe ran disconnected local services branching off from the Great Western in the south west but apparently they ran an 'Alphaline' service along the main line.

If Lumo ever gets their Euston–Scotland and Paddington–Wales services, those would be separate to Kings Cross–Scotland.

 

[stadler]

TFL Rail previously operated two separate unconnected lines. One operating suburban London Paddington services. One operating suburban London Liverpool Street services. This ended when the Crossrail core opened and the Elizabeth Line started.

 

[richw]

I was wondering whether Wessex Trains maybe ran disconnected local services branching off from the Great Western in the south west but apparently they ran an 'Alphaline' service along the main line

Where did the Weymouth services run from back then?

 

[Kilopylae]

Where did the Weymouth services run from back then?

Westbury, I think. There was an Alphaline via Castle Cary so those weren't isolated.

 

[richw]

Westbury, I think. There was an Alphaline via Castle Cary so those weren't isolated.

Deleted

 

[Class15]

Hackney Downs and Hackney Central are conneceted and esentially one station now.

I’d agree with this, they have a passageway now so I think that’s fair.

The Lea Valley Line (Stratford - Tottenham Hale - Cheshunt) is not an Overground line but still run by Greater Anglia

And even if it was an overground line, it would connect with the North London at Stratford.

 

[childwallblues]

Merseyrail Liverpool Loop to New Brighton

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

First's current and future 'Lumo' services will be separate - KX to Edinburgh, Paddington to South Wales / Paignton, Euston to Stirling - not strictly a TOC though.

 

[Flange Squeal]

I believe for a number of years Chiltern Railways took over operation of the Oxford to Bicester Town branch, in the final few years before a stage of the Evergreen project connected it to the Chiltern Main Line. What I don't remember though is if there were limited positioning journeys that ran in service between Oxford and Banbury first/last thing, or if these were empties so made the branch a mini island on the Chiltern Railways network map?

I think the situation almost existed on Northern Rail's network map when they operated the Cleethorpes to Barton on Humber route, were it not for a few services on Saturdays at the time over the Brigg line?

 

[thenorthern]

Pre Bicester rail link wasn't the Oxford to Bicester Town service an isolated line in the Chiltern Network? I was thinking that before it was transferred to EMR the Barton line was an isolated Northern line but then I remembered that back then there was the Sheffield to Cleethorpes line which was served by 3 trains a day on Saturdays only. I never understood why that was the case.

In the short time between the creation of First Transpennine Express and Northern Rail back in 2004 I think the Morecambe/ Furness/ Cumbria Coast line services operated by First North Western had become isolated from the rest of the First North Western network as the Preston-Barrow services were operated by FTPE while the local Northern services terminated at Lancaster.

I believe for a number of years Chiltern Railways took over operation of the Oxford to Bicester Town branch, in the final few years before a stage of the Evergreen project connected it to the Chiltern Main Line. What I don't remember though is if there were limited positioning journeys that ran in service between Oxford and Banbury first/last thing, or if these were empties so made the branch a mini island on the Chiltern Railways network map?

I think the situation almost existed on Northern Rail's network map when they operated the Cleethorpes to Barton on Humber route, were it not for a few services on Saturdays at the time over the Brigg line?

Beat me to it.

 

[Class15]

Merseyrail Liverpool Loop to New Brighton

Doesn’t this link with other Merseyrail services at loads of places, not least Liverpool Central and Moorfields where it meets the Northern Line?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

What I don't remember though is if there were limited positioning journeys that ran in service between Oxford and Banbury first/last thing, or if these were empties so made the branch a mini island on the Chiltern Railways network map?

Chiltern did run a single late night Stratford-Banbury-Oxford journey (the “theatre train”).

 

[scrapy]

Doesn’t this link with other Merseyrail services at loads of places, not least Liverpool Central and Moorfields where it meets the Northern Line?

The Wirral lines and Northern lines don't physically meet (as passenger lines, using or crossing the same tracks), although the Wirral line passes under the Northern at Moorfields and Central. I'm not sure if this is what the OP is after though. There is also a non passenger connection between James St and Central.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Great Western's West Ealing to Greenford service has no statoins in common with any other GWR services - plenty of GWR trains pass through West Ealing but none call there.

It doesn’t really count as a separate network as the last train of the day continues beyond West Ealing and serves Ealing Broadway and London Paddington.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Wirral lines and Northern lines don't physically meet (as passenger lines, using or crossing the same tracks), although the Wirral line passes under the Northern at Moorfields and Central. I'm not sure if this is what the OP is after though. There is also a non passenger connection between James St and Central.

Which is actually the original Mersey Railway line.

 

[Bill57p9]

Does the Waterloo & City Line count?
It has never been properly connected to either the mainline or tube networks.

The cynic in me is also thinking Avanti West Coast since they seem to regularly cut their network in two with a gap between Preston and Carlisle.

 

[Farigiraf]

Back when Northern operated the Barton line, there were only 2 trains a day (or less) via Brigg that connected it with the rest of the Northern network.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Back when Northern operated the Barton line, there were only 2 trains a day (or less) via Brigg that connected it with the rest of the Northern network.

Two trains a day on Saturdays only wasnt it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Dec 2024 ==

Westbury, I think. There was an Alphaline via Castle Cary so those weren't isolated.

There was Penzance to Portsmouth thinking about it, but I don’t remember the routing

The Weymouth line has run from Bristol (and beyond) for many years. There was a period when some trains either started from Westbury or Swindon but you’d have to go back to the 70s/80s to find it and there were always at least a token number of through Bristol trains.

The Penzance-Portsmouth ran via Westbury I think?

 

[Route115?]

What about the Island Line which is part of SWR?

 

[A S Leib]

What about the Island Line which is part of SWR?

Yes.

Other examples I can think of are South Western (no rail between the Island Line and the remainder of the system)

 

[Bill57p9]

For a couple of months (in 2022??) following the Ayr station hotel fire, ScotRail operated a shuttle service between Stranraer and Girvan isolated from the network by the closure of all lines at Ayr.
This ceased when the stranded 156 required maintenance and was recovered by road.

 

[swt_passenger]

What about the Island Line which is part of SWR?

It’s in the original post, presumably as it’s the best long term example.

 

[Class15]

During the block of Mitre Bridge Junction, London Overground operated a Shepherds Bush - Clapham Junction shuttle to keep the West London line moving. Although this linked to other Overground line services (East London/Windrush line) at Clapham, it was disconnected from the rest of the ‘Mildmay’ line.

Additionally, I have noticed Thameslink running Rainham - Gravesend services when the line west of Gravesend via Dartford and Greenwich is closed.

Finally, I believe that, during some sets of engineering work, there might be two portions of Greater Anglia:

Portion 1: Liverpool St/Stratford - Audley End/Cambridge/Southend/Hertford
Portion 2: Witham - Norwich, the various branch lines, and the lines north of Cambridge.

This would happen at times when Beauleiu Park and Cambridge South station construction is closing both the WAML and GEML in part.

 

[A S Leib]

This would happen at times when Beauleiu Park and Cambridge South station construction is closing both the WAML and GEML in part.

Would that split Great Northern in two as well (King's Lynn – Cambridge, Moorgate / King's Cross – Welwyn / Stevenage / Royston), or would King's Lynn be bustituted?

 

[xotGD]

Whenever the Tyne Valley line is closed or partially closed, the Northern network is split in two.