TRIVIA: TIPLOC codes where the code does not match the location name

[greaterwest]

I think this is a new one not done on the forum yet.

Following the recent diversion of Grand Central services to St Peters' Tyne & Wear Metro station, I became curious about this.
Context: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-st-peters-metro-station.241528/post-6003234

I am looking for TIPLOC* codes where the code bears no resemblance to the actual location's name used (for example, on RealTimeTrains).

*TIPLOC = Timing Point Location, used primarily in timetabling and customer information systems.

I am looking for:

• The TIPLOC code itself
• The current location name
• The original or intended location name
• Non-station and station codes are fine
• Optionally, the history of why they are different

Here are examples I can think of:
CSEAH is Imperial Wharf, but it was originally going to open as Chelsea Harbour, the name of the nearby housing development.
LYNDHRD is Ashurst (New Forest), formerly known as Lyndhurst Road.
SNDRMNK is St Peters' T&W Metro station, in the area of Monkwearmouth, Sunderland.

Here are examples of TIPLOC codes I am NOT looking for (where the codes resemble the station name):
PRST (Preston)
KNGX (London King's Cross)
NWCSTLE (Newcastle)
GLGC (Glasgow Central)

I am also not looking for codes where there are more to one station (usually these are just used for timetabling at larger stations with large numbers of trains on different lines):
CLPHMJM/CLPHMJW (Clapham Junction mainline / Windsor side)
CLPHMJC (Clapham Junction Central (Southern) side)
VICTRIE/VICTRIC (London Victoria South Eastern / Central)

 

[The Planner]

I think this is a new one not done on the forum yet.

Following the recent diversion of Grand Central services to St Peters' Tyne & Wear Metro station, I became curious about this.
Context: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-st-peters-metro-station.241528/post-6003234

I am looking for TIPLOC* codes where the code bears no resemblance to the actual location's name used (for example, on RealTimeTrains).

*TIPLOC = Timing Point Location, used primarily in timetabling and customer information systems.

I am looking for:

• The TIPLOC code itself
• The current location name
• The original or intended location name
• Non-station and station codes are fine
• Optionally, the history of why they are different

Here are examples I can think of:
CSEAH is Imperial Wharf, but it was originally going to open as Chelsea Harbour, the name of the nearby housing development.
LYNDHRD is Ashurst (New Forest), formerly known as Lyndhurst Road.
SNDRMNK is St Peters' T&W Metro station, in the area of Monkwearmouth, Sunderland.

Here are examples of TIPLOC codes I am NOT looking for (where the codes resemble the station name):
PRST (Preston)
KNGX (London King's Cross)
NWCSTLE (Newcastle)
GLGC (Glasgow Central)

I am also not looking for codes where there are more to one station (usually these are just used for timetabling at larger stations with large numbers of trains on different lines):
CLPHMJM/CLPHMJW (Clapham Junction mainline / Windsor side)
CLPHMJC (Clapham Junction Central (Southern) side)
VICTRIE/VICTRIC (London Victoria South Eastern / Central)

Have you gone through the railwaycodes.org.uk website? I expect there to be loads of examples. It keeps the setup work down if you keep the first 3 or 4 letters the same I was told many years ago.

 

[greaterwest]

Have you gone through the railwaycodes.org.uk website? I expect there to be loads of examples. It keeps the setup work down if you keep the first 3 or 4 letters the same I was told many years ago.

I have had a look at this website, yes. I thought it might have made for interesting discussion on this site, however.

 

[SargeNpton]

ALERTN: For the high-level platforms at Liverpool South Parkway - which were formerly the platforms for Allerton station.

 

[swt_passenger]

ALERTN: For the high-level platforms at Liverpool South Parkway - which were formerly the platforms for Allerton station.

Thanks for ALERT N us about that one.

 

[Horizon22]

TIPLOCs are frequently nonsense or a really weird choice of characters.

Why some locations are 4 letters and others 9 with no rhyme or reason baffles me! Even last century surely standardisation was a good idea!

CRS codes have helped for stations and some other locations, but they are not universal.

 

[SargeNpton]

TIPLOCs are frequently nonsense or a really weird choice of characters.

Why some locations are 4 letters and others 9 with no rhyme or reason baffles me! Even last century surely standardisation was a good idea!

CRS codes have helped for stations and some other locations, but they are not universal.

TIPLOCs are of 4-7 characters. The first four characters are for the main location or area, with the 5th-7th characters being subsidiaries of that area (though there are one or two where that rule has been contravened).

 

[rower40]

If the location is only 3 letters, then its TIPLOC's 4th character is the same as the third, to make the TIPLOC at least 4 characters. E.g. Ely (Cambridgeshire) has TIPLOC ELYY.
Yarm (between Northallerton and Eaglescliffe) has TIPLOC "YAAM" instead of "YARM" - because all TIPLOCs starting "YARM" are in the vicinity of Great Yarmouth.
Kelvindale (between Anniesland and Maryhill in North Glasgow) has TIPLOC "DAWSHLM". Just a bit further along towards Glasgow Queen Street, Gilshochill has TIPLOC "LAMBH". The originally-proposed station names were Dawsholm and Lambhill respectively.

Before the 1994 TIPLOC restructuring (which introduced the principle of 1st four characters defining the area), Derby Ramsline Halt had TIPLOC "RAMS". Potential for confusion with Ramsgate.

 

[Watershed]

TIPLOCs are frequently nonsense or a really weird choice of characters.

Why some locations are 4 letters and others 9 with no rhyme or reason baffles me! Even last century surely standardisation was a good idea!

CRS codes have helped for stations and some other locations, but they are not universal.

TIPLOCs are never more than 7 characters. You might be thinking of STANME codes, which can be up to 9 characters and do seem to be largely made up - but yet aren't even unique. There are even some which are longer than the actual station name , although TIPLOCs can also be guilty of this - e.g. Ely station is ELYY.

 

[Horizon22]

TIPLOCs are never more than 7 characters. You might be thinking of STANME codes, which can be up to 9 characters and do seem to be largely made up - but yet aren't even unique. There are even some which are longer than the actual station name , although TIPLOCs can also be guilty of this - e.g. Ely station is ELYY.

Yes I mean 7, but the point full stands!

 

[RailAleFan]

Train In Position LOCation

 

[trainmania100]

Southease
(SESARDM)

Very bizarre. SES maybe, but ARDM wat

 

[zwk500]

Train In Position LOCation

This seems more like a backronym, Timing Point Location (as OP has) is what I was told when working for NR.

 

[pdeaves]

This seems more like a backroom, Timing Point Location (as OP has) is what I was told when working for NR.

zwk500 is correct, Timing Point Location (also, for 'backroom' read 'backronym', I think).

 

[zwk500]

zwk500 is correct, Timing Point Location (also, for 'backroom' read 'backronym', I think).

Oops! Yes, sorry autointerfere in action there

 

[zero]

Do railway staff ever need to know TIPLOCs by heart or would it ever be useful to know some by heart?

 

[zwk500]

Do railway staff ever need to know TIPLOCs by heart or would it ever be useful to know some by heart?

You get to learn them if you do the same area but the planning system has a search function and TOPS uses Stanox numbers.

 

[ComUtoR]

Do railway staff ever need to know TIPLOCs by heart or would it ever be useful to know some by heart?

It would depend on what part of the railway you worked.

I barely know any CRS codes let alone TIPLOCs.

 

[Class 170101]

It should be noted some aren't as easy as you think
For example
PRKSTON = HPQ = Harwich International but was previously known as Harwich Parkeston Quay
CAMBDGE = CBG = Cambridge

TIPLOCS seem to like taking (some) vowels out places but as noted about some reflect what a station used to be called rather than updating the TIPLOC to be closer to what a station is called now.

 

[The Planner]

Its normally down to the Timetable Planning Rule specialists, but they can effectively decide what they want any new TIPLOC to be. Id bet most planners could reel off multiple TIPLOCs on their patch without much effort.

 

[kieron]

TIPLOCs are of 4-7 characters. The first four characters are for the main location or area, with the 5th-7th characters being subsidiaries of that area (though there are one or two where that rule has been contravened).

Up to a point, I think. For instance, the level crossing in Auchengray (ACHNGRY) is further south than Edinburgh, whereas Achnasheen station (ACHNSHN) is north of Inverness. And Glengarnock (in North Ayrshire) has both GLGNxxx and GLNGxxx codes associated with it, and shares the latter with Gillingham (in Kent).

 

[Horizon22]

Do railway staff ever need to know TIPLOCs by heart or would it ever be useful to know some by heart?

I doubt it. I know a chunk of CRS codes, but that is useful to know in my role and makes things quicker!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2023 ==

TIPLOCS seem to like taking (some) vowels out places but as noted about some reflect what a station used to be called rather than updating the TIPLOC to be closer to what a station is called now.

It appears totally arbitrary to me; sometimes vowels are missing and sometimes they aren't!

 

[zwk500]

I doubt it. I know a chunk of CRS codes, but that is useful to know in my role and makes things quicker!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2023 ==

As mentioned above, planners know tiplocs for their patch

It appears totally arbitrary to me; sometimes vowels are missing and sometimes they aren't!

It is largely arbitrary.

 

[Horizon22]

As mentioned above, planners know tiplocs for their patch

It is largely arbitrary.

Was it something that the TIPLOCs developed slowly over time, with varied practices across regions / routes or even locales or over a relatively limited period? Because if it's the latter, there's no excuse that it should be so random.

 

[rower40]

Because if it's the latter, there's no excuse that it should be so random.

Being able to write a timetable for every possible move that might be needed, not just by passenger and freight trains, but ECS, Engineering trains, Sandite, Route-learning etc, means that every possible junction and reversal point needs its own TIPLOC. There's also the matter that the same freight terminal has different TIPLOCs for each train operator using it. So locations need adding all the time.

Then things change - Fambridge station changed its name to North Fambridge, but the TIPLOC has remained FAMBDGE to save having to alter all the computer systems behind that.

It was way more random before the 1994 TIPLOC restructuring.

Do railway staff ever need to know TIPLOCs by heart or would it ever be useful to know some by heart?

Guilty. I write data for ARS systems, and can spot the difference between Portobello Junction (Paddington) and Portobello Junction (Edinburgh) at 40 paces (about a chain and a bit.)

 

[Watershed]

Do railway staff ever need to know TIPLOCs by heart or would it ever be useful to know some by heart?

It depends on who exactly you're referring to. Timetable planners will know the most common TIPLOCs in their area off by heart, simply because they use them so often (you have to select a TIPLOC for every timing point you add to a schedule). Some TOCs also use TIPLOCs in their schedule cards, so traincrew at these TOCs will similarly have to know the TIPLOCs (though it should be fairly obvious what each TIPLOC is from their route knowledge). Other staff probably won't know TIPLOCs as they have little cause to use them.

 

[SargeNpton]

Southease
(SESARDM)

Very bizarre. SES maybe, but ARDM wat

Southease was originally named as "Southease and Rodmell Halt".

Does that now make sense? The station name was shortened in 1980.

 

[rower40]

Southease
(SESARDM)

Very bizarre. SES maybe, but ARDM wat

Wikipedia (as always) has the answer:

The London, Brighton and South Coast Railway opened the station on 1 September 1906 as Southease and Rodmell Halt, to serve two villages in the Ouse Valley; Southease, 0.5 miles (800 m) to the west, and the slightly larger Rodmell, more than 1 mile (1.6 km) away.[2] The station was renamed Southease on 12 May 1980.[3]

Cross-post with the above! You beat me to it.

 

[driver9000]

Do railway staff ever need to know TIPLOCs by heart or would it ever be useful to know some by heart?

Our schedule cards used to be abbreviated to TIPLOC codes so you got used to the ones you needed to know. In recent years they've been reformatted to show the location in plain text. We occasionally still get issued STP cards with TIPLOC though.

 

[Horizon22]

Being able to write a timetable for every possible move that might be needed, not just by passenger and freight trains, but ECS, Engineering trains, Sandite, Route-learning etc, means that every possible junction and reversal point needs its own TIPLOC. There's also the matter that the same freight terminal has different TIPLOCs for each train operator using it. So locations need adding all the time.

Then things change - Fambridge station changed its name to North Fambridge, but the TIPLOC has remained FAMBDGE to save having to alter all the computer systems behind that.

It was way more random before the 1994 TIPLOC restructuring.


Guilty. I write data for ARS systems, and can spot the difference between Portobello Junction (Paddington) and Portobello Junction (Edinburgh) at 40 paces (about a chain and a bit.)

I have no issue with the concept of TIPLOCs. But more the random nature of them. Like CRS codes they should have a logic and should be an even number of characters (I.e every TIPLOC is 6 letters).