[Trivia] The "Thunderbirds" - which came first?

[najaB]

Random question but I searched and didn't see an answer: did the 1960s TV show get its name from the rescue locomotives, or did the locomotives get their name from International Rescue?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Random question but I searched and didn't see an answer: did the 1960s TV show get its name from the rescue locomotives, or did the locomotives get their name from International Rescue?

The latter. Dedicated standby rescue locomotives are a relatively recent idea

 

[simonw]

Random question but I searched and didn't see an answer: did the 1960s TV show get its name from the rescue locomotives, or did the locomotives get their name from International Rescue?

I don't think in the days of depots across the country with, usually, spare engines parked that there were dedicated "rescue" locomotives.

 

[Western Gaffer]

Surely the TV show came first? Before (and well after) the 1960s, there were hundreds of spare locos all over the place....

 

[sprinterguy]

The term was first used in a railway context for the ECML rescue locomotives following electrification as far as I'm aware, being inspired by the TV show and resulting in 47520 being named 'Thunderbird' by the show's creator at King's Cross at the end of 1993.

Scot-rail.co.uk has some further information:

scot-rail.co.uk » Thunderbirds

Following introduction of the Mk4 coaching stock on the East Coast Main Line in the early 1990s, British Rail identified the need for a dedicated pool of locomotives equiped with electric train supply to rescue trains that had failed.

Although a spare freight locomotive could be used to move a stranded train, an electric train supply was necessary to operate the air-conditioning and power doors.

Four Class 47 locomotives were used, stationed at strategic locations along the Anglo-Scottish route. York Intercity Control nicknamed them 'International Rescue' and coded the loco's Thunderbird 1, 2, 3 and 4 after the rescue craft in the classic TV series.

The term gained wider recognition after one of the loco's, 47520, was officially named "Thunderbird" by Gerry Anderson (creator of the TV series) at London King's Cross in December 1993.

 

[Route115?]

The rescue locos came way after the series. You could argue that the thunderbird locos they got their names from the Mercury 7 astronauts as thats where Gerry Anderson got his inspiration from. Scott Carpenter, Gus (Virgil) Grissom, Alan Shepard, Gordon Cooper, John Glenn. (Wally Shirra never became a Tracey, nor did Deke Slayton who was in any case grounded.)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Some sources claim that Gerry Anderson appropriated the name 'Thunderbird' for his 1960s TV series, after the Thunderbird (Air)Field in Arizona, which, a couple of decades earlier, had been used for training Allied air pilots during the Second World War (his brother Lionel had supposedly once been stationed there).

Prior to that term 'Thunderbird' was a name quite likely derived from Native American folklore, being a mythological supernatural spirit creature of considerable power and strength.

 

[dan4291]

Thunderbirds the TV show got its name from the United States Air Force demonstration team known as the Thunderbirds, basically the USAF version of the RAF Red Arrows.

 

[najaB]

Thanks all. What made me think of the question is that the TV show would have been contemporaneous with the drawdown of large fleets of locomotives, making rescue provision more of a need. But I guess they still had enough locos around into the 70s.

 

[Magdalia]

The Thunderbirds TV series was in the mid 1960s. In those days there was almost always a locomotive and traincrew not too far away. To take the ECML as an example, there would be locomotives and traincrew at Finsbury Park, Peterborough, Doncaster, York and Gateshead.

At termini and other loco change points it was usually possible to do stepping up to cover failures. Where trains were booked pairs of locomotives, they could be split. This was a favourite at Norwich.

Dedicated Thunderbird locomotives was a consequence of the second stage of sectorisation, when locomotives were allocated to sector pools and not supposed to be used by other sectors except by prior arrangement.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There was a long history of "standby traction" at key centres , sometimes using station pilots taken off their normal work to help out in a failure scenario. Reading GW for example had a 4-6-0 available to hand to take over any ailing loco. I believe one GW panner was pressed onto a main line working one day on an up express from Leamington , until a proper main line loco could be found on the route.

 

[gg1]

The Thunderbirds TV series was in the mid 1960s. In those days there was almost always a locomotive and traincrew not too far away. To take the ECML as an example, there would be locomotives and traincrew at Finsbury Park, Peterborough, Doncaster, York and Gateshead.

At termini and other loco change points it was usually possible to do stepping up to cover failures. Where trains were booked pairs of locomotives, they could be split. This was a favourite at Norwich.

Dedicated Thunderbird locomotives was a consequence of the second stage of sectorisation, when locomotives were allocated to sector pools and not supposed to be used by other sectors except by prior arrangement.

I'd have thought the multiple coupling standards from the 80s onwards have been a factor too, a situation exacerbated post privatisation.

Most/all 1st gen DMUs and EMUs had buffers and screw couplings so could be rescued by any any available loco, and HSTs were designed with provision for emergency coupling to a loco via a drawbar. With the introduction of auto couplers either a specialised loco or a translator coach would be needed.

 

[Purple Train]

Didn't Virgin name all their 57/3 "Thunderbirds" after characters from the programme?

 

[Route115?]

Yes they did

 

[Purple Train]

Thanks!

Yes they did

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Didn't Virgin name all their 57/3 "Thunderbirds" after characters from the programme?

Believe there was a Scott Tracy, a Virgil Tracy, an Alan Tracy, a Gordon Tracy, a John Tracy, a Jeff Tracy, a Lady Penelope as well as Tin Tin, Brains, Kyrano, Parker, The Hood, Tracy Island, Firefly, The Mole and FAB 1.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Believe there was a Scott Tracy, a Virgil Tracy, an Alan Tracy, a Gordon Tracy, a John Tracy, a Jeff Tracy, a Lady Penelope as well as Tin Tin, Brains, Kyrano, Parker, The Hood, Tracy Island, Firefly, The Mole and FAB 1.

A moment’s silence for my unfortunate father who laboured under the misapprehension that Kyrano was in fact called “Guano” until I pointed the locomotive out to him one day

 

[6Gman]

There was a long history of "standby traction" at key centres , sometimes using station pilots taken off their normal work to help out in a failure scenario. Reading GW for example had a 4-6-0 available to hand to take over any ailing loco. I believe one GW panner was pressed onto a main line working one day on an up express from Leamington , until a proper main line loco could be found on the route.

York and Darlington also had standby locos in the 1950s and probably earlier - generally an A2 at York and an A3 at Darlington.

 

[Taunton]

There was a long history of "standby traction" at key centres , sometimes using station pilots taken off their normal work to help out in a failure scenario. Reading GW for example had a 4-6-0 available to hand to take over any ailing loco. I believe one GW Pannier was pressed onto a main line working one day on an up express from Leamington , until a proper main line loco could be found on the route.

Taunton likewise commonly had a Hall 4-6-0, most often old stalwart 4932 Hatherton Hall, fully coaled on west end pilot duties, drawing back coaches from terminating locals, but ready to go anywhere. It normally faced Up, which was a bit unfortunate because when it was seen to be required suddenly it was mostly into the shed turntable pronto, and to head Down.

The finest hour was the infamous City of Truro commemoration in 1964, with hand-picked Castles Paddington to Plymouth and back. Taunton was chosen as the point to have the "Thunderbird" of the day, standby 7025 Sudeley Castle, immaculately polished, standing by just in case, ready to give a good whistle as the Special thundered through - except it staggered in half an hour late behind a Hall, which itself had been grabbed in a moment at Westbury to cover the main loco failure. Taunton crew thought their moment of fame was about to come, but alas the Special's main crew, inspectors and all, grabbed the footplate and continued on it instead, apparently with hardly a word being said.

 

[contrex]

Prior to that term 'Thunderbird' was a name quite likely derived from Native American folklore, being a mythological supernatural spirit creature of considerable power and strength.

In the 1970s I had a 1962 Triumph Thunderbird motorcycle, a 650cc twin. Marlon Brando rode an earlier (1950) model one in the film 'The Wild One'. Bikers often called them 'T-Birds'.

 

[Gloster]

It was also a very popular Ford car in the US, with the early marks being driven by the ‘young kids’ in many a film. As the Beach Boys sung, ‘She’ll have fun, fun, fun till her daddy takes her T-bird away.’