[Trivia] Stations on private land

[richard1976]

Ryde Pier Head?

 

[SargeNpton]

I've never been there, but isn't Wrexham Central only accessible through a shopping centre car park and not directly from the public highway?

As the railway pre-dates the shopping centre I can only guess that it was old railway land, with guaranteed access to the station being part of the provisions of the development.

 

[Timmyd]

Is Elephant & Castle (NR station) accessible other than through the shopping centre?

It is - it has an entrance on Elephant Road to the rear. In fact the shopping centre entrance has recently closed

 

[urbophile]

Moor Park is just outside the Greater London area in Hertfordshire. The station is served by London Underground's Metropolitan Line although Chiltern Trains running to and from Aylesbury run through on separate tracks.

Where do the tracks merge? Chiltern runs over LU track for some distance south of Amersham, because it is double track only.

 

[vic-rijrode]

Where do the tracks merge? Chiltern runs over LU track for some distance south of Amersham, because it is double track only.

There are 4 tracks from Harrow-on-the-Hill until just south of Rickmansworth station. The western 2 are used by both Chiltern trains to Aylesbury and fast LU trains to Amersham (which omit stops between Harrow and Moor Park). The eastern 2 tracks are used by the LU Watford (and occasional slow Amersham) services which call at all stations between Harrow and Moor Park.

Effectively the two sets of tracks merge after the junction of the eastern 2 tracks with the Watford branch (so there is no junction of the western tracks for Watford). The triangular junction of the Watford branch is completed south of Rickmansworth station with the 2 western tracks (by now the only 2 tracks).

Hope this helps....

 

[Mojo]

Where do the tracks merge? Chiltern runs over LU track for some distance south of Amersham, because it is double track only.

It's LUL infrastructure from kilometre post 61.25 to the south of Harrow on the Hill station as far as kilometre post 87.08, a point commonly referred to as "Mantles Wood" although some pedants will say this is not actually at Mantles Wood (for reference the bridge just off the North end of Amersham station platforms is kilometre post 84.96).

 

[etr221]

See Carto Metro for a detailed track map, that will let you see. Or Clive's UndergrounD Line Guides .

 

[mirodo]

Where is the ownership boundary at Clapham Junction? I realise the relatively recent Brighton Yard entrance (NR owned?) means CLJ is probably no longer a valid answer to OP’s question, but the front entrance on St John’s Hill passes through the shopping centre which is privately owned - does the railway property start at the gateline, which would mean that the entrance from Junction Approach also requires passage over private property? This would have made it a valid answer in the past.

 

[apinnard]

What about Christ’s Hospital?

 

[SargeNpton]

What about Christ’s Hospital?

Not on private land as far as I can tell.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Wedgwood is on the private Wedgwood estate. It’s still a station, and technically open. Just no trains stop! Whichever Road you use to get there tells you it’s a private road, but that said, to all intents and purposes, it’s just a normal public road.

 

[jumble]

Hasn't been used by National Rail services since 1993!

My understanding it was 1991

From District Dave

According to Underground News a Timetable Notice came into effect on 8 July 1991 which eliminated Chiltern Line stopping at Moor Park, this was later incorporated into Metropolitan Line working timetable WTT295 from 28 October 1991.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2020 ==

There are 4 tracks from Harrow-on-the-Hill until just south of Rickmansworth station. The western 2 are used by both Chiltern trains to Aylesbury and fast LU trains to Amersham (which omit stops between Harrow and Moor Park). The eastern 2 tracks are used by the LU Watford (and occasional slow Amersham) services which call at all stations between Harrow and Moor Park.

Effectively the two sets of tracks merge after the junction of the eastern 2 tracks with the Watford branch (so there is no junction of the western tracks for Watford). The triangular junction of the Watford branch is completed south of Rickmansworth station with the 2 western tracks (by now the only 2 tracks).

Hope this helps....

Not forgetting the Chesham services that mirror the Amersham services
There are many more Amersham and Chesham Slow services on the Local lines than fast ones

 

[stj]

Another Topic. Stations that did not have public access ie only for workers?

 

[AlbertBeale]

I thought Lympstone Commando was on Network Rail land as there is a public footpath between the station and the camp.
Gatwick Airport station platforms/ticket office are on NR land with the connecting footbridge crossing the A23 before entering the airport terminal. Where the physical legal boundary is something solicitors can investigate.!
I would query stations such as Dunrobin Castle Stanlow and Teeside Airport actually being sited on NR property and within their boundary although with the latter maybe the access road is private.?
I was aware that Dover Western Docks station at its closure in 1994 was not on BR/Railtrack land but was owned by Sealink or British Ports or whatever name it was then after BR sold its Shipping Division.

That's right about the layout at Lympstone Commando - though I seem to remember that there's a locked gate between the platform and the public highway (which is also a cycle path I believe), with a sign saying it has to be opened by someone from the army base! (Though it's been a while and I might be misremembering...)

.

 

[steamybrian]

What is the legal position in regard to Quainton Road station. which is classified as a private station.? Is it owned/leased to the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre and I beleive the entrance/exit is across their land.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Because the residents complained about diesel trains revving up iirc

I've always been puzzled that Chiltern trains don't stop at Moor Park, given it's the last station before the Watford junction and hence might provide useful connections - both between Marylebone trains and Watford services, and also for Watford-Amersham (etc) journeys. Though the latter would be better covered by local direct services using the other part of the triangle there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2020 ==

Moor Park is just outside the Greater London area in Hertfordshire. The station is served by London Underground's Metropolitan Line although Chiltern Trains running to and from Aylesbury run through on separate tracks.

Moor Park is also useful if you've travelling on the underground with a pushbike, intending to join a demonstration at the Northwood military base (a NATO command centre), and find that Northwood station is swamped with combined Met, Herts and MOD police; you stay on board for one more stop and cycle to the back of the base from there. So I'm told.

 

[Watershed]

That's right about the layout at Lympstone Commando - though I seem to remember that there's a locked gate between the platform and the public highway (which is also a cycle path I believe), with a sign saying it has to be opened by someone from the army base! (Though it's been a while and I might be misremembering...)

.

The sign on the gate nowadays warns "Danger - No unauthorised access", although it's unclear who could give authority for access or what danger there is! I have not encountered the gate being locked, although I can't discount the possibility.

There remain some gramatically grating signs stating that "Persons who alight here must only have business with the Camp". I guess boarding trains is OK then - if you can get to the platform!

 

[Ducatist4]

Several stations near me may be owned by NR but the car parks through which the station are accessed are owned by the District Council.

 

[Scotrail84]

Rosyth Dockyard would have counted but thats been closed for many a year now.

 

[JonathanH]

Hever station appears to only have access via a Private Road

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

 

[Llanigraham]

Hever station appears to only have access via a Private Road

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

Haven't looked on a RoW map, but isn't this the type of situation that causes confusion in this discussion? And have you checked who owns the access?

Just because a station does not have a Public Right of Way to it does not mean it is on private, (not owned by the railway), land. In the Enabling Acts for a railway, station sites were more often than not stated and specified, often to gain support from, or appease local residents, and suitable land was acquired for them and their supporting infrastructure. Sometimes that also included land for access as well. That can often be seen signified by old metal signs stating rules for that access.

Two examples I can think of:
Machynlleth Station doesn't have a PRoW to it, and somewhere in the trees between it and the main road there is/was a sign by the Great Western Railway stating the access is for railway purposes only.

Dyfi Junction Station has no PRoW to it, only a Permissive Path, but the station is obviously on railway owned land.

I am sure that if I looked back at many of the supposed "private land" examples mentioned here that would be the case.

 

[SargeNpton]

Hever station appears to only have access via a Private Road

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

This is an odd one. The station buildings are leased and the company whose name appears on the private road sign was once based there - but moved out a while back. Would Network Rail (or whoever it was at the time) have ceded the rights to the access road when they leased the building?

The road sign pointing to the station is the standard Highways England one for road vehicles, which suggests that vehicular access to pick up/set down rail passengers is allowed.

 

[Llanigraham]

This is an odd one. The station buildings are leased and the company whose name appears on the private road sign was once based there - but moved out a while back. Would Network Rail (or whoever it was at the time) have ceded the rights to the access road when they leased the building?

The road sign pointing to the station is the standard Highways England one for road vehicles, which suggests that vehicular access to pick up/set down rail passengers is allowed.

It would be interesting to look at the Enabling Act for that one but I suspect originally the access road was railway owned. I suspect the company named have presumptuously added that sign. And the Highways sign proves nothing.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The sign on the gate nowadays warns "Danger - No unauthorised access", although it's unclear who could give authority for access or what danger there is! I have not encountered the gate being locked, although I can't discount the possibility.

There remain some gramatically grating signs stating that "Persons who alight here must only have business with the Camp". I guess boarding trains is OK then - if you can get to the platform!

If a sign is more than grammatically grating, but wrong or misleading or ambiguous (as is often the case with a misplaced "only"), then I reckon it doesn't need taking any notice of. (As I once said to the manager of a supermarket who complained that I had more than 5 items in a "5 items of less" lane, telling me that "less" and fewer" meant the same thing: "So are you one of this shop's few intelligent managers or one of the less intelligent managers?" I got my groceries.)

 

[Cricketer8for9]

If a sign is more than grammatically grating, but wrong or misleading or ambiguous (as is often the case with a misplaced "only"), then I reckon it doesn't need taking any notice of. (As I once said to the manager of a supermarket who complained that I had more than 5 items in a "5 items of less" lane, telling me that "less" and fewer" meant the same thing: "So are you one of this shop's few intelligent managers or one of the less intelligent managers?" I got my groceries.)

And there I was thinking you were objecting to the use of ”5 items of less“ as opposed to “5 items or less”... Or even the grammatically grating ending of sentences with propositions. Taxi for one anyone?

 

[onlinespotting]

Aren’t most stations network rail land, regardless of the ownership of the surrounding land? This is why there is nothing to stop you lympstone commando ? Even when there is no access a

 

[SargeNpton]

Aren’t most stations network rail land, regardless of the ownership of the surrounding land? This is why there is nothing to stop you lympstone commando ? Even when there is no access a

In some locations Network Rail owns the tracks, but not the station infrastructure (including the platforms).

 

[randyrippley]

Heysham?

The whole harbour including the station is owned by Peel Holdings

 

[geoffk]

There are multiple stations on the UK network that don't have any sort of road access. Longcross is the closest one to London I can think of.

I've occasionally wondered what was the point of Longcross station as it appears to have no houses nearby but I assume it served the former defence establishment, now a film studio. The OS map shows no right of way across the golf course from the station but I presume there is footpath access from the south side via Burma Road, a slightly disconcerting name!

 

[etr221]

I think it was Longcross. but there was a story I read of someone who alighted from the last train, and watched it sail off into the distance, only to be told that there was no public egress from the station (only into the military establishment), and that he would just have to await the next train - on the following day.