Trivia> Shortest distance between stations where a train gets 100mph or over?

[bnm]

Can a HST break the ton between Twyford and Reading, a distance of 5 miles?

 

[notadriver]

Well a HST leaving reading will usually be doing 100ish passing Twyford

 

[bnm]

I meant from a standing start at Twyford.

 

[notadriver]

Definitely not then

 

[Rich McLean]

I meant from a standing start at Twyford.

You will hit about 80-90mph before having to slow down

 

[BantamMenace]

333s will easily reach 90mph between Crossflatts - Keighley and between Keighley and Steeton & Silsden, if they were capable of 100mph they'd probably come close

 

[samuelmorris]

Isn't that mostly in tunnel? You'd have a hard time proving it without GPS!

Seconded on the ticket. London Terminals to Stratford International: £5.90 Anytime Day Single, £7.50 Off-Peak Day Return, £10.60 Anytime Day Return.

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I'll have to go on 395s a bit more often and try it for myself - Once I have a point of reference with a GPS reading I can usually work out EMU speeds live by the pitch of the traction motors. I don't have enough experience of 395s in a power car to actually do that for them though :P

 

[notadriver]

I'll have to go on 395s a bit more often and try it for myself - Once I have a point of reference with a GPS reading I can usually work out EMU speeds live by the pitch of the traction motors. I don't have enough experience of 395s in a power car to actually do that for them though :P

I don't see the point. You'd have no accurate point of reference whatsoever. The only way to really tell is to be in the leading cab.

 

[najaB]

Once I have a point of reference with a GPS reading I can usually work out EMU speeds live by the pitch of the traction motors.

Technically, all that the pitch will tell you is the power being demanded of the motors, it can't tell you the speed. What would the pitch of the traction motors tell you if the train was coasting on a long downhill stretch?

 

[Hophead]

I think the St. Pancras - Stratford conundrum needs one of the more mathematically-minded contributors to take the distance, booked time and possible acceleration / deceleration curves and tell us what's possible.

 

[notadriver]

Why don't you just ask a driver or someone who's had a cab ride??

 

[smudga331]

I would think the 360's hit the 100 mark between Colchester and Marks Tey which is 3.8 miles

 

[samuelmorris]

Technically, all that the pitch will tell you is the power being demanded of the motors, it can't tell you the speed. What would the pitch of the traction motors tell you if the train was coasting on a long downhill stretch?

It has to be under power at the time for that to work obviously, but unless I'm going completely mad, pitch will indicate speed, power demanded would be indicated by volume, surely?

 

[najaB]

It has to be under power at the time for that to work obviously, but unless I'm going completely mad, pitch will indicate speed, power demanded would be indicated by volume, surely?

If not for gearing, I'd agree with you. But all a low pitch will tell you is that there is a lot of torque being requested - you can get the same pitch at different speeds.

Using this (proably made up) automotive example picked at random from Google:

If I look at the tachometer and see 5000rpm, that tells me that I'm either going 45, 61, 78, 90 or 100mph... unless I'm going uphill in which case it could be... well, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[samuelmorris]

Yes but hence why I said EMUs - they don't change gear do they :P

With the exception of things like GTO driven units at lower speeds the relationship between traction motor pitch and velocity is linearly proportionate. It's just a question of being able to hear them over rail noise or other equipment. Aboard units like Desiros that's very difficult so I can't do it for them, but things like Electrostars and the 96TS it's easy.
Can't do it for the 09TS as I have no GPS point of reference from outside.
As an example, I established from GPS fairly solidly (tested it on multiple occasions) that 321 traction motors (easy since in the power car they're very loud) produce about 800Hz at 85mph, thus can realtime other pitches as long as the train's under power. When coasting though, of course I'm none the wiser.

Given this discussion I'm kind of curious about the 395 now, but I'd need to go all the way to Ebbsfleet and back to get a decent outside reading. Chance would be a fine thing!

 

[AM9]

Yes but hence why I said EMUs - they don't change gear do they :P

With the exception of things like GTO driven units at lower speeds the relationship between traction motor pitch and velocity is linearly proportionate. It's just a question of being able to hear them over rail noise or other equipment. Aboard units like Desiros that's very difficult so I can't do it for them, but things like Electrostars and the 96TS it's easy.
Can't do it for the 09TS as I have no GPS point of reference from outside.
As an example, I established from GPS fairly solidly (tested it on multiple occasions) that 321 traction motors (easy since in the power car they're very loud) produce about 800Hz at 85mph, thus can realtime other pitches as long as the train's under power. When coasting though, of course I'm none the wiser.

Given this discussion I'm kind of curious about the 395 now, but I'd need to go all the way to Ebbsfleet and back to get a decent outside reading. Chance would be a fine thing!

The pitch of the meshed motor pinion/axle gear noise must by definition be directly related to axle rotational speed, (assuming no wheelslip). The problem with newer rolling stock is that the gears will be quieter as the clearances are at their optimums. When the gears are nearer the end of their life, the noise will be a contiuous whine when under power. For those that can remember, how loud could those old EE507s sound when on 4SUBs, etc.. They would even chirp when coasting as gear teeth made intermittent contact through motor suspension travel.

 

[Taunton]

Way back in the '60s & '70s, the down 309s would get to an indicated 100mph* on the run down to Ingatestone on the Shenfield to Chelmsford sector. I remember that that when that service was introduced, it was hailed as the fastest start to stop anywhere over such a short distance (9 miles).

That's the one I thought about. Certainly in the early 1960s Cecil J Allen timed the then-new Clacton electrics at 100 mph here, then Chelmsford to Witham (also 9 miles) and Witham to Colchester (13 miles).

 

[bramling]

Thinking on the Wigan/Warrington stretch, by the time the train gets to maximum speed (at least I think it's max) it almost has to start to slow down!

But for those in the know (ie. you guys) what are the closest two (stopping) stations which the train will get up to 100mph or more between them? Manny Picc and Stockport??

I think 365s must reach close to 100 mph between Stevenage and Hitchin (5 miles) when routed on the fast line in the down direction. Knebworth to Stevenage (3 miles) also definitely exceeds 75 mph by some way when on the fast line. Most services tend to use the slow line (75 mph max), however when on the fast line the extra speed is very noticeable.

 

[Bevan Price]

Isn't that mostly in tunnel? You'd have a hard time proving it without GPS!

Seconded on the ticket. London Terminals to Stratford International: £5.90 Anytime Day Single, £7.50 Off-Peak Day Return, £10.60 Anytime Day Return.

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=STP&dest=SFA

Most consumer GPS units do not work in tunnels - no signal received from satellites.

Class 350 can just reach 100 mph between Winsford & Hartford (4m. 26c.)

 

[Hyphen]

Most consumer GPS units do not work in tunnels - no signal received from satellites.

That was exactly the point I was making!

 

[flash]

A class 373 will do 175km/h between Stratford and Saint Pee - from a standing start on the link line from Temple Mills depot.

 

[hurricanemk1c]

Class 22000 DMU's in Ireland will easily hit 100mph between Portlaoise and Portarlington, a distance of 9.27 miles. Think a 201+MKIV set can aslo do it, but since no MKIV stops in Portarlington anymore, can't say

 

[route:oxford]

This is just a guess, but I don't have a note of measurements or speed limits to hand.

100mph achieved between Perth - Gleneagles - Dunblane - Stirling - Larbert?

Maybe a little tougher in the opposite direction. The Chieftain stops at Dunblane every Sunday on the Up.

 

[Mag_seven]

A couple of HSTs call at Keynsham between Bath and Bristol TM - might be possible to hit 100mph+ either between Bath and Keynsham or between Keynsham and Bristol.

 

[43074]

EMT 222s (and HSTs) hit 110mph between Loughborough and Leicester, a distance of 12 miles.

 

[plastictaffy]

Class 350's frequently make 100 between Watford Junction and Kings Langley on the down fast. Sadly it can't be done on the slow lines due to the limit being a little lower - possibly 75mph?? (not very far at all, four minutes run time)

 

[louis97]

EMT 222s (and HSTs) hit 110mph between Loughborough and Leicester, a distance of 12 miles.

The 222s will easily hit 120mph too. HSTs can only just make 110mph!

 

[Wolf]

Might get close between fitzwilliam and south elmsall in a 321 or 322 on the Leeds to Doncaster line. In this direction after the loops it's a downhill gradient towards South Kirby junction. Line speed is 100 and distance between is around 8 to 10 miles I think. Only northerns best 321s /322s would stand a chance of making 100 though and it might require the usual braking point to be pushed a little.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Might get close between fitzwilliam and south elmsall in a 321 or 322 on the Leeds to Doncaster line. In this direction after the loops it's a downhill gradient towards South Kirby junction. Line speed is 100 and distance between is around 8 to 10 miles I think. Only northerns best 321s /322s would stand a chance of making 100 though and it might require the usual braking point to be pushed a little.

On the rare occasions they make it onto the Doncaster line, a 333 might fare better...