Trivia: Services that you wouldn't expect to run?

[northwichcat]

Oh yes, fair enough then!

Also there is the TPE Liverpool-Victoria-Huddersfield-Leeds-Newcastle which is fairly unexpected being the only TPE service that serves Victoria.

It's to do with starting to implement the future pattern in stages. December 2017 will see Liverpool-Scarborough routed via Victoria and Chat Moss.

By 2019 a 185 on a North TPE service at Piccadilly will be a slow service which will run to Yorkshire via Guide Bridge, while a bi-mode train on a North TPE service at Piccadilly will be a fast service which will run to Yorkshire via Victoria.

 

[43074]

It's to do with starting to implement the future pattern in stages. December 2017 will see Liverpool-Scarborough routed via Victoria and Chat Moss.

By 2019 a 185 on a North TPE service at Piccadilly will be a slow service which will run to Yorkshire via Guide Bridge, while a bi-mode train on a North TPE service at Piccadilly will be a fast service which will run to Yorkshire via Victoria.

It also saves the services crossing over the entire Piccadilly station throat, which I'm sure was part of the justification for the Ordsall Chord.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I would say that London-Paddington-Worcester Foregate Street is odd, as it is operated by Great Western and London Midland do an hourly Birmingham New Street-Hereford service, and Gatwick Airport-Reading as well. Thoughts?

¿que?

How else are you proposing that a direct service between London and Worcester should be provided?

 

[najaB]

How else are you proposing that a direct service between London and Worcester should be provided?

The way I read it, it isn't the routes NoMorePacers that finds odd, but rather the operators. Worcester is fairly far north for GWR.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Well, by definition every operator has a service which is further north than its others! Inverness is fairly far north for ICEC, Lime Street for EMT, and so on.

Would it be more sensible for London Midland to run the Paddington-Worcester service, given that Paddington-Oxford is unambiguously "GWR metals"? Clearly not. You could at a pinch argue that Worcester could be served by extended Euston-Birmingham services, albeit Virgin rather than LM to retain the 2hr-ish journey time - in which case, good luck explaining to the people of Evesham that they no longer merit a through train to London.

 

[najaB]

You could at a pinch argue that Worcester could be served by extended Euston-Birmingham services, albeit Virgin rather than LM to retain the 2hr-ish journey time - in which case, good luck explaining to the people of Evesham that they no longer merit a through train to London.

Don't forget that the thread is about services that posters wouldn't expect to run, not that they think shouldn't run. I think most people would expect Worcester to be served by LM given that it's closer to the Midlands than the 'heart' of GWR territory.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Don't forget that the thread is about services that posters wouldn't expect to run, not that they think shouldn't run. EDIT I think most people would expect Worcester to be served by LM given that it's closer to the Midlands than the 'heart' of GWR territory.

Besides, Shrewsbury only gets served 2tpd to London (a Virgin Voyager). They handle going to Birmingham, Cardiff or Crewe to get another train to London.

 

[onlinespotting]

EMT St Pancras to Scarborough, surely it's quicker to use VTEC to York and change?

 

[NoMorePacers]

Well, by definition every operator has a service which is further north than its others! Inverness is fairly far north for ICEC, Lime Street for EMT, and so on.

Would it be more sensible for London Midland to run the Paddington-Worcester service, given that Paddington-Oxford is unambiguously "GWR metals"? Clearly not. You could at a pinch argue that Worcester could be served by extended Euston-Birmingham services, albeit Virgin rather than LM to retain the 2hr-ish journey time - in which case, good luck explaining to the people of Evesham that they no longer merit a through train to London.

So you're suggesting we run through GWR services to Birmingham New Street, VTEC to Thurso and Wick, and EMT to Glasgow? Besides, London-Worcester only operates at peak times, so people in Worcester usually have to get a train to London anyways. If you lived in Worcester and you wanted to spend the weekend in London, you would have to pack on a crowded train on Friday evening and Monday morning, and be late for work on Monday. And what does Evesham have to with this service? It's just an extension of the service from Cheltenham Spa.

 

[dk1]

Besides, Shrewsbury only gets served 1tpd to London (a Virgin Voyager). They handle going to Birmingham, Cardiff or Crewe to get another train to London.

Twice a day to Shrewsbury. Virgin looking to expand this if possible after the success of the first year.

 

[NoMorePacers]

EMT St Pancras to Scarborough, surely it's quicker to use VTEC to York and change?

Most definitely. Even the EMT service to York is odd. Get a VTEC or GC service instead. And I don't think EMT are franchised to run these services, and not many passengers would probably use this service, so EMT are probably making a loss on York and Scarborough services.

 

[Ianno87]

Most definitely. Even the EMT service to York is odd. Get a VTEC or GC service instead. And I don't think EMT are franchised to run these services, and not many passengers would probably use this service, so EMT are probably making a loss on York and Scarborough services.

I always assumed this service was more aimed at East Midlanders/Sheffielders/Doncastrians to let them have a day at the seaside? It just runs through to St Pancras for operational convenience.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I always assumed this service was more aimed at East Midlanders/Sheffielders/Doncastrians to let them have a day at the seaside? It just runs through to St Pancras for operational convenience.

People from those places can visit the beautiful Lincolnshire town of Mablethorpe, which is much closer to home and is just as nice.

 

[6Gman]

People from those places can visit the beautiful Lincolnshire town of Mablethorpe, which is much closer to home and is just as nice.

Are you a troll NMP?

Or do you seriously mean that people should only visit "designated" destinations?

 

[NoMorePacers]

Are you a troll NMP?

Or do you seriously mean that people should only visit "designated" destinations?

I was joking. But in OPERATIONAL terms, the service is unusual.

 

[6Gman]

I could think of the GWR 06 00 Penzance to Cardiff for another but which is, in effect, several variations of passenger journeys all lumped together. I should hardly think any numbers would travel throughout especially with such an early start. Wouldn't be very pleasant with a 150/1 anyway.
The Heart of Wales Lines tends to be a "get on here and get off there" service rather than throughout journeys..

The 1720 Crewe - Cardiff is not a train to catch if you want to get from Crewe to Cardiff!

It is, in effect, a Crewe - Shrewsbury stopper, tacked onto a Shrewsbury - Swansea HOWL service, tacked onto a Swansea - Cardiff stopper!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

So you're suggesting we run through GWR services to Birmingham New Street, VTEC to Thurso and Wick, and EMT to Glasgow?

No, I'm not. I have no idea how you reached that conclusion.

Besides, London-Worcester only operates at peak times, so people in Worcester usually have to get a train to London anyways.

London-Worcester runs pretty much every hour through the day. Here, let me help you.

And what does Evesham have to with this service? It's just an extension of the service from Cheltenham Spa.

*boggle*

 

[43074]

So you're suggesting we run through GWR services to Birmingham New Street, VTEC to Thurso and Wick, and EMT to Glasgow? Besides, London-Worcester only operates at peak times, so people in Worcester usually have to get a train to London anyways. If you lived in Worcester and you wanted to spend the weekend in London, you would have to pack on a crowded train on Friday evening and Monday morning, and be late for work on Monday. And what does Evesham have to with this service? It's just an extension of the service from Cheltenham Spa.

You're massively exaggerating the point, which is that the franchise name has no bearing on where the TOC operates to; EMT operate to Liverpool and Norwich because the Liverpool to Norwich is operationally centered on Nottingham, hence it makes sense for it to be run by EMT.

Your point about Worcester is flawed, it is basically hourly throughout the day; Evesham is on the Cotswold line and served by most London - Worcester services.

Most definitely. Even the EMT service to York is odd. Get a VTEC or GC service instead. And I don't think EMT are franchised to run these services, and not many passengers would probably use this service, so EMT are probably making a loss on York and Scarborough services.

The service is in their Passenger Service Requirement (set by the DfT) so they have to operate it.

The service from York on Saturday departed with approx. 80 passengers on board - the service is there to provide a direct service from Scarborough, York & Doncaster to Loughborough, Leicester and Kettering really, aimed mainly at the tourist market, it isn't a waste of time as you suggest.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

EMT London-Leeds (operates on peak-hours only)

more aobut reducing dead miles for HST sets that live with Neville on the Hill

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's an Orcats Raid on London to Leeds revenue.

I highly doubt it. ORCATS calculations take into account whether a train is overtaken, and all EMT services from Leeds to London are overtaken by a VTEC train. The income gained will be negligible.

Don't forget that the thread is about services that posters wouldn't expect to run, not that they think shouldn't run. I think most people would expect Worcester to be served by LM given that it's closer to the Midlands than the 'heart' of GWR territory.

To the north of Worcester is London Midland territory, but south and east of Worcester is not. The Oxford-Worcester line is exclusively First Great Western. Worcester to Bristol is also FGW.

All of that makes sense, I reckon. Moving Oxford-Worcester from Regional Railways was a very sensible call.

 

[D6975]

One of the evening Penistone line services runs through to Retford, I can't imagine many do the full journey from Huddersfield.

Not only an unusual long route, but it runs to the high level platforms at Retford too.

 

[ACBest]

It's from Lincoln, often it's a Meridian but a HST is used occasionally.
I said Newark Castle to avoid confusion with East Coast services.

I know the service well.

As far as I'm aware, a HST has only ever been used on that service once since it began. I was on it! Was a fun one, it was on a Christmas Market Saturday, before the days of the EC service from Lincoln to London.

Back then, a MOM had to be present for trains which would be dangling off the end of platform 3, and blocking Pelham Street Junction.

Said MOM had gone home, and no-one was expecting a HST to be appearing vice Meridian. If I remember correctly, it had all gone belly up near Luton or something.

Anyway, when said HST pulled into Nottingham, I phoned a friend at Lincoln station, who alerted the staff, and got the MOM back!

Edit... Was December 7th 2009.

 

[Rob F]

Nottingham to Bournemouth by XC Voyager, once a day at 06:37.

Rob

 

[northwichcat]

Chester to Manchester Airport in the middle of the night via Stockport (both running non-stop between Chester and Piccadilly.) Although I know that's so some drivers retain route knowledge of the Mid-Cheshire line.

 

[Martin_1981]

XC's 0600 Bath Spa to Glasgow and the daily Newcastle to Guildford services in each direction

 

[168lover]

Marylebone-Aylesbury via Risborough services. Would make much more sense to keep one unit running Risborough-Aylesbury services and release other units to strengthen other trains.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Not sure if its been mentioned, but Lincoln-Hull is one that makes no sense really except for the fact its used to swap units over

I miss the weekly Hull-Liverpool service

 

[glbotu]

I remember being in a discussion about Lincoln - Hull (and just those general services). Realistically, they run so that there are "direct" trains from the Sheffield - Lincoln line to Meadowhall. It's really a Sheffield - Hull and a Lincoln - Sheffield stuck together.

 

[RichJF]

There's one train per weekday from Coulsdon Town to Watford Junction. There's nothing in the reverse direction from the WLL towards Coulsdon. Also one train each weekday which starts at Sanderstead and forms a stopping service to London Victoria. And let's round this post off with an honourable mention of the completely random couple of London Bridge-Uckfield services in the morning peak which stop at stations between Sanderstead and Woldingham inclusive, Southbound only, with very very few passengers (mainly a few schoolkids) at each stop.

1xday early morning Redhill - Victoria using a class 455. It comes down & sits in the postal dock overnight.
Misses out Merstham then proceeds to call at every station en route, & is overtaken (I think) by 2 faster services from Redhill!

 

[tsr]

1xday early morning Redhill - Victoria using a class 455. It comes down & sits in the postal dock overnight.
Misses out Merstham then proceeds to call at every station en route, & is overtaken (I think) by 2 faster services from Redhill!

It's useful for shift workers travelling to or from the smaller stations. In this way it is a very well-used train. I've never known it to quite be rammed full, but it's certainly known to be full and standing at points. You'll often have about 20-40 passengers from Redhill alone. It's actually overtaken by the 0534 Thameslink departure from Redhill, which is more popular; therefore if you miss the 0530, you can speed past it at Purley Oaks and just about connect at East Croydon, if signals and punctuality work in your favour.

I'm not sure why I didn't mention it initially. I occasionally get that train - in fact by sheer coincidence I was even on it this morning, probably for the only time in quite a few weeks, though.