Trivia: Odd through trains?

[30mog]

Earlier tonight something reminded me of a short period - mid 1980's I think. There was a through service from London Paddington to Hull! A service that upon arrival at Sheffield would be split. I can't remember for sure but the other part of the train probably went to Leeds. As I recall me making just a short journey to Doncaster and so joined the Hull portion.

Anyone else remember this service? And if so, how on earth did such a service come about?

Thesedays, I find a Northern Rail service from Adwick to Lincoln one of the most bemusing. Since it enables you to do the whole journey in about twice as many miles as is really necessary or Doncaster to Retford about three times too far. Though I guess NR have a reason why, productivity?

Anyway, no complaints if this becomes a bit of a place for listing some of the most unlikely, by today's standards, through trains to have ever run. Can you seriously believe Hull to Paddington today?

 

[Welshman]

Not for nothing was the old Central Trains known as the "Yarmouth to Barmouth Railway"

They used to combine workings, so you had Skegness-Manchester Airport service [which was actually more useful than the present-day change at Nottingham, Derby, Crewe set-up!]. I seem to remember at one stage there was even an Aberystwyth-Grimsby service and one from Skegness to Cardiff.

 

[Tomnick]

Thesedays, I find a Northern Rail service from Adwick to Lincoln one of the most bemusing. Since it enables you to do the whole journey in about twice as many miles as is really necessary or Doncaster to Retford about three times too far. Though I guess NR have a reason why, productivity?

In this case, Doncaster (and beyond) - Sheffield and Sheffield - Lincoln local services are combined to run as through services: the reason, as I understand it, being to satisfy the SYPTE requirement to provide a through service between Meadowhell and stations east of Sheffield.

 

[flymo]

I do recall the Paddington - Hull/Leeds service, it left Paddington at about 06:45 went via Birmingham and got into Hull about 6 hours later at about 12:45. The return working about an hour later or so went to Brighton I think getting in at about 20:30, or something like that.

Happy days...

 

[IanD]

I remember in about 1989 there used to be a through service from Leeds to Manchester Piccadilly via Derby, Birmingham and Crewe.

 

[pjnathanail]

Nottingham currently has one through train a week from Carslile via the Settle to Carslile line, departing at 1520 and arriving at 1957

 

[RichmondCommu]

Nottingham currently has one through train a week from Carslile via the Settle to Carslile line, departing at 1520 and arriving at 1957

There was a daily service from Nottingham to Carlisle until at least the late 1970's which ran via the S & C. After that I'm pretty sure it continued to run via the WCML. Before that the Thames Clyde express ran from St Pancras to Glasgow via the S & C. Sadly I can't ever see this being reinstated!

 

[Sidious]

I remember in about 1989 there used to be a through service from Leeds to Manchester Piccadilly via Derby, Birmingham and Crewe.

Yes, I remember that well. It used to be an early evening departure, and was usually loco-hauled by a 47. I tried to get a carriage destination label for my collection, but I failed!

At Leeds and all points to Chesterfield they would announce the destination as Wolverhampton. It was only Derby and beyond did the destination get announced as Manchester. I think it arrived about 22:00.
____________________________________________

One of the most bizarre through trains today has to be the 10:46 Great Malvern to Brighton. 5 1/2 hours formed of a class 150 which stops at every lamp post. What a horrendous journey.

 

[Smod]

I think I recall an old BR service from Paddington to Glasgow. Or is my memory failing me?

And when the Waterloo - Salisbury - Bristol service was provided by Wales and West (or was it Wessex) there were trains from Waterloo to Fishguard and (I think) Waterloo to Manchester via Wales.

 

[AlexS]

There's the one train per week Sunday evening only 1945 Cardiff Central to Leicester, which calls at all stations bar Water Orton after Birmingham? Exists mainly to get the units to Leicester for stabling overnight.

 

[Brunel]

I do recall the Paddington - Hull/Leeds service, it left Paddington at about 06:45 went via Birmingham and got into Hull about 6 hours later at about 12:45. The return working about an hour later or so went to Brighton I think getting in at about 20:30, or something like that.

Happy days...

Very Happy Days

 

[43074]

There's a Gloucester to Stansted Airport and also a Nottingham to Bournemouth service run by CrossCountry as well as the Cardiff to Leicester mentioned above. (Sadly) there isn't a return working between Leicester and Cardiff though.

I seem to remember there was an hourly Lincoln to Shrewsbury service until about the mid 2000s. IIRC they were usually 2 car 156s and the journey took about 3.5 hours. And I thought 20 minutes with a 156 on an Ivanhoe Line stopper from Leicester to Loughborough was hell...

 

[anti-pacer]

I think I recall an old BR service from Paddington to Glasgow. Or is my memory failing me?

And when the Waterloo - Salisbury - Bristol service was provided by Wales and West (or was it Wessex) there were trains from Waterloo to Fishguard and (I think) Waterloo to Manchester via Wales.

Yes, I remember Manchester to Waterloo via Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Newport (?), Bristol, Bath, Westbury, Salisbury, Basingstoke, Woking, Clapham Junction.

Can you imagine someone not from these shores, travelling Manchester to London, and accidentally getting on this one?! hock:

Still, a pleasant journey all the same!

Wasn't there also a NT evening peak service that did Leeds-Huddersfield-Sheffield-Retford (or Lincoln)?

 

[swcovas]

In the late 80s there was a summer saturday working from Crewe to Tenby (not running into Swansea) via the HOWL which appeared in the tt with the "sprinter" headnote. All other services were 108 operated.

 

[flymo]

^ Tenby used to get a few summer Saturday services (I think even an overnighter Fri/Sat) from the North-East way back when. Seems strange now perhaps but run of the mill back then.

 

[30mog]

Yes, I remember Manchester to Waterloo via Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Newport (?), Bristol, Bath, Westbury, Salisbury, Basingstoke, Woking, Clapham Junction.

It begs the question. To which London termini has Manchester NOT had a through service? Add: Marylebone via Woodhead & GCR. St.Pancras via Peak Rail route and more recently Hope Valley & Sheffield. Paddington via Birmingham & Reading. I believe the through service to Brighton used to call at Kensington Olympia [dubious inclusion though]. And of course the route to Euston as today.

Beeching targeted a lot of wasteful duplication in the early 1960's. Am I right in thinking that back in 1960 there was AT LEAST triplication between Manchester & London?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Often these services are used to transfer stock to various different operating areas within their maintenance cycle. The weekday teatime Leeds-Sheffield via Huddersfield is used to switch a unit (usually a 3-car 144) between the West Yorkshire area and the South Yorks/Lincs circuit. As the units are maintained at Neville Hill there's also at least one (I think) Lincoln-Leeds via Sheffield service to bring units back to the depot.

 

[Muzer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Crosslink is one I find quite strange. Not in the league of some of these, but more recent.

 

[swcovas]

^ Tenby used to get a few summer Saturday services (I think even an overnighter Fri/Sat) from the North-East way back when. Seems strange now perhaps but run of the mill back then.

Perhaps you're thinking of the York - Tenby Summer sat service which was introduced in 1975 when Tenby became a "golden rail" resort.......remember that? It wasn't overnight but arrived in Tenby mid afternoon IIRC. There was a balanced working leaving Tenby at (I think) about 0930. The first arrival was greeted with brass bands and the Mayors of York and Tenby at the station.......like a scene from a railway's opening day!! Again memory a bit vague but I'm sure it ran well into the 80s. 47 hauled with about 8 Mk 1s.

 

[dvboy]

Birmingham to Warrington Bank Quay via Shrewsbury, run by ATW.

 

[30mog]

When you think of what became Central Trains under the first tranche of franchises. I get the impression a lot of different journeys were experimented with in preparation for privatisation. Starting at about the time classes 150-156 were being rolled out. And one such 'experiment' was a service from Colchester to Barrow-in-Furness.

 

[Bevan Price]

It begs the question. To which London termini has Manchester NOT had a through service? Add: Marylebone via Woodhead & GCR. St.Pancras via Peak Rail route and more recently Hope Valley & Sheffield. Paddington via Birmingham & Reading. I believe the through service to Brighton used to call at Kensington Olympia [dubious inclusion though]. And of course the route to Euston as today.

Beeching targeted a lot of wasteful duplication in the early 1960's. Am I right in thinking that back in 1960 there was AT LEAST triplication between Manchester & London?

Correct. And even earlier, there was a through service between Manchester and Kings Cross. (The old GNR wanting a share of Manchester / London traffic)

 

[Mugby]

There has been a Leeds - Derby - Birmingham - Wolverhampton - Stoke - Manchester service in recent years, a morning train certainly well into the Voyager era.

I remember it well because it created a fares anomaly. If you were travelling from Derby to Wolverhampton, you could buy a ticket to Stoke which you could use on this train and which was considerably cheaper than Wolves ticket and just get off there instead.
Not sure if getting off at Wolves was strictly legal though!

 

[High Dyke]

Not for nothing was the old Central Trains known as the "Yarmouth to Barmouth Railway"

They used to combine workings, so you had Skegness-Manchester Airport service [which was actually more useful than the present-day change at Nottingham, Derby, Crewe set-up!]. I seem to remember at one stage there was even an Aberystwyth-Grimsby service and one from Skegness to Cardiff.

And don't forget the Lincoln - Coventry / Worcester services of the early 00's

 

[30mog]

Correct. And even earlier, there was a through service between Manchester and Kings Cross. (The old GNR wanting a share of Manchester / London traffic)

Any ideas what route this might have taken?

And going back to 1960. Was Euston the fastest route? My guess is prior to WCML electrification, St.Pancras might have been faster? Since they did operate a Pullman service on that route.

 

[34D]

This doesn't really count, but there's a Knaresborough-Heaton ECS move.

There was the Leeds-Settle-Carlisle-Kilmarnock-Glasgow service, operated by a maroon class 158 when the rest of the S&C was 156.

Around the same time, there was a coast to coast Scarborough-Blackpool service.

Down south, before the (wholesale) end of slam door, the last Lymington Pier-Brockenhurst continued in service to I think Southampton - this ceased before the Lymington line became special.

 

[SprinterMan]

My personal favourite is the 1V59 1232 Holyhead to Maesteg, a long-distance express as far as Cardiff where it becomes a commuter service to Maesteg. ATW diagram it like this so a big 3-car 175 is on the busiest evening peak train to Maesteg. It does cause confusion at the Holyhead end though, as this train connects with a ferry, and few ferry passengers have ever heard of Maesteg :P

Thinking about historical examples, the 0425 Holyhead to Cardiff used to run through to Milford Haven, and there used to be an early morning London Liverpool Street to Sheringham service formed of a class 150.

Adam

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

One of the most bizarre through trains today has to be the 10:46 Great Malvern to Brighton. 5 1/2 hours formed of a class 150 which stops at every lamp post. What a horrendous journey.

In actual fact, I watched this service depart Worcester Foregate Street (WOF) this very morning. Mind you , it had an upgrade to a 3-car 158/9 for today.

 

[CC 72100]

In actual fact, I watched this service depart Worcester Foregate Street (WOF) this very morning. Mind you , it had an upgrade to a 3-car 158/9 for today.

I've actually found that whenever I've used the Malvern - Brighton services (have used 09:00 Brighton - Malvern 5/6 times and the service in the other direction once) that they often are the 158/9s. It to me seems moreso to be the rule as opposed to a one-off.

 

[edwin_m]

It begs the question. To which London termini has Manchester NOT had a through service? Add: Marylebone via Woodhead & GCR. St.Pancras via Peak Rail route and more recently Hope Valley & Sheffield. Paddington via Birmingham & Reading. I believe the through service to Brighton used to call at Kensington Olympia [dubious inclusion though]. And of course the route to Euston as today.

Beeching targeted a lot of wasteful duplication in the early 1960's. Am I right in thinking that back in 1960 there was AT LEAST triplication between Manchester & London?

The Great Northern had a presence in Manchester through their stake in the CLC, and ran Kings Cross services for a while as mentioned above, though I think they were discontinued quite early as hopelessly indirect compared with the competition. According to Wikipedia they started in 1851 and used the then MS&LR from Retford.

There was a Manchester-Birmingham-Derby Voyager a couple of years ago, presumably to get a unit back to depot. Not sure if this still runs. There was also Northern's infamous Wakefield-Huddersfield-Halifax-Bradford-Leeds-Selby!

EMT has (or recently had) a Sleaford to Nottingham via Peterborough and Melton to get the Sleaford shuttle unit home at night.