Trivia: Odd through trains?

[Eagle]

Derby to Swansea via Birmingham and Barnes, now that must have been one of the weirdest routed trains ever.

Nah, not as weird as the standard old chestnut of Manchester Piccadilly > Shrewsbury > Severn Tunnel Junction > Salisbury > London Waterloo.

 

[IanD]

Possibly talking out of my backside but I seem to remember this and also sleeper services running into Waterloo at around that time. Could it have been something to do with the remodelling of Paddington when the Heathrow branch was built?

Think this was for convenient connection with the Eurostar services.

 

[dvboy]

I don't think anyone's mentioned the 0524 Shrewsbury to Rugeley TV.

I caught that at Wolverhampton this morning, oddly it was announced as terminating on arrival at Birmingham New Street (the only announcement all journey) despite all CIS on train and platform showing Rugeley TV.

 

[Darren R]

Originally Posted by Bedpan
Possibly talking out of my backside but I seem to remember this and also sleeper services running into Waterloo at around that time. Could it have been something to do with the remodelling of Paddington when the Heathrow branch was built?

Think this was for convenient connection with the Eurostar services.

There were - for a time - services from far-flung corners of the UK into Waterloo, to connect with the then new Eurostar services as you say. But I think the Sleeper services only operated into Waterloo whilst major remodelling work was underway at Paddington. (The Heathrow branch came a few years later.)

 

[Zoe]

But I think the Sleeper services only operated into Waterloo whilst major remodelling work was underway at Paddington. (The Heathrow branch came a few years later.)

The Night Riviera started running into Waterloo in 1995 and started at the same time as the Manchester and Edinburgh Eurostar connecting services. It returned to Paddington in September 1998 (about 3 months after the Heathrow Express started running). The Paddington remodelling I believe was in 1993 so if the Night Riviera was diverted to London Waterloo for this then there would have been two separate periods when Waterloo was served.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-05-17/Debate-10.html

The night riviera sleeper service will now run to Waterloo to provide connections with Eurostar.

 

[Darren R]

The Night Riviera started running into Waterloo in 1995 and started at the same time as the Manchester and Edinburgh Eurostar connecting services. It returned to Paddington in September 1998 (about 3 months after the Heathrow Express started running). The Paddington remodelling I believe was in 1993 so if the Night Riviera was diverted to London Waterloo for this then there would have been two separate periods when Waterloo was served.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-05-17/Debate-10.html

You're quite correct - should've checked the timetables first! I remembered the Paddington re-modelling being around the same time and the Night Riviera running into Waterloo being quite short-lived. Put two and two together......

On the subject of the services from Manchester and Scotland/North East England to Waterloo in connexion with Eurostar - did these services actually ever run for definite? I know the through trains from the SW and Wales ran, but there was some suggestion at the time that the InterCity trains from the North never quite got off the ground. Can anyone shed any light? (Or is my memory about this just as flawed as it was about the Night Riviera!)

 

[Eagle]

On the subject of the services from Manchester and Scotland/North East England to Waterloo in connexion with Eurostar - did these services actually ever run for definite? I know the through trains from the SW and Wales ran, but there was some suggestion at the time that the InterCity trains from the North never quite got off the ground. Can anyone shed any light? (Or is my memory about this just as flawed as it was about the Night Riviera!)

They did, but it was into the Virgin era.

 

[Andyjs247]

In 1998 a particularly odd/unusual working on a summer Saturday was the 0658 Birmingham New Street - Ramsgate and 1126 return to Edinburgh. It was booked for Deltic haulage from Birmingham to Ramsgate and back. D9000 did the honours. Outward journey was via the WCML, Watford and Kensington Olympia and the return was via Reading and Oxford.

Obviously an unusual working due to the booked traction but also because of the route. I'm not sure if this train ran in 1999 but I don't recall direct services between the Kent coast and Birmingham either before 1998 or since.

 

[30907]

Direct services (at least on Friday night/Saturday) to the Kent Coast have a long history, and included the daily Birkenhead-Reading-Redhill-Margate/Dover/Brighton/Hastings, but they mostly disappeared in the 60's with the general thin-out of dated trains.

The Cross-Country offer via the West London Line dates from the late 70's - there is a specialist website which has been mentioned on this forum more than once, but it doesn't cover the Ramsgate/Dover WD services.
http://www.1s76.com/INDEX.HTM

 

[30mog]

I believe Virgin Cross Country experimented with Blackpool North to Portsmouth Harbour in the late 90s too.

I can't remember which TOC but IIRC there were also experiments with Manchester Airport, Rochdale and Burnley to London Euston about the same time as the above.

 

[Zoe]

They did, but it was into the Virgin era.

It seems the services actually ran from May 1995 until 4 January 1997 which was two days before Virgin took over from the shadow TOC "Cross Country Trains" and started running the franchise.

 

[Welshman]

I believe Virgin Cross Country experimented with Blackpool North to Portsmouth Harbour in the late 90s too.

I can't remember which TOC but IIRC there were also experiments with Manchester Airport, Rochdale and Burnley to London Euston about the same time as the above.

Virgin did operate a Blackpool-Portsmouth service - I remember being amazed at seeing it at Crewe on one occasion. It was a 2-car Cl.158 in Regional Railways livery with "Virgin Trains" on the side!

First North Western experimented with Rochdale-Euston and Manchester Airport-Euston services. That from Rochdale was again a Cl.158, with, IIRC, one bay partitioned-off and designated "First Class"! I think the Manchester Airport service was a Cl.323.

**********************************************************

I think the "oddest" and certainly most macabre through service ever offered was that by the London Necropolis Railway from Waterloo to Brookwood Cemetery.
I remember reading that 1st, 2nd & 3rd class return tickets were on sale for mourners, but only singles for coffins.

 

[edwin_m]

As far as I remember FNW was briefly the operator of the small fleet of 322 units for the Manchester Airport to London services.

 

[Welshman]

As far as I remember FNW was briefly the operator of the small fleet of 322 units for the Manchester Airport to London services.

Thank you - I stand corrected re the actual class of unit used.

 

[87015]

Thank you - I stand corrected re the actual class of unit used.

Clacton units were used when they were short of 323s. 153s and 156s both reached Euston on the Rochdale etc services despite being booked and timed for 158s... Departing Bletchley on 31xxx for Bedford with 309624 (?-the blue one) racing past on the down fast was a rather silly moment!

 

[Eagle]

As far as I remember FNW was briefly the operator of the small fleet of 322 units for the Manchester Airport to London services.

They also tried Rochdale to London and Bolton to London. Not sure what stock actually worked it but I'm pretty sure that they wanted eventually to have 180s running the service.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Virgin did operate a Blackpool-Portsmouth service - I remember being amazed at seeing it at Crewe on one occasion. It was a 2-car Cl.158 in Regional Railways livery with "Virgin Trains" on the side!

At some point VT did operate HSTs into Portsmouth Harbour, once daily. But I can't remember where it ran to / from. It gave me the opportunity to clear my HST buffets for haulage ( "rideage", being trailers??? ) though.

 

[cmjcf]

ATW had the morning HoW service into Swansea double up as a Swanline to Cardiff. Bizarrely, that train, originating in Shrewsbury, now runs all the way to Newport. I do wonder how that's advertised north of Craven Arms. I know that at Paddington stoppers to Heathrow, Reading and Oxford are all advertised one stop short. Which reminds me of the arrivals boards at Cardiff Central, which can be seen announcing trains from "Merthyr via Barry".

 

[headshot119]

ATW had the morning HoW service into Swansea double up as a Swanline to Cardiff. Bizarrely, that train, originating in Shrewsbury, now runs all the way to Newport. I do wonder how that's advertised north of Craven Arms. I know that at Paddington stoppers to Heathrow, Reading and Oxford are all advertised one stop short. Which reminds me of the arrivals boards at Cardiff Central, which can be seen announcing trains from "Merthyr via Barry".

The 05:19, and the 09:00 off of Shrewsbury are both shown on the online journey planners as going through to Newport. Taking 5 hours 18, and 5 hours 31 respectively.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 05:19, and the 09:00 off of Shrewsbury are both shown on the online journey planners as going through to Newport. Taking 5 hours 18, and 5 hours 31 respectively.

I think CMJCF meant in terms of the departure boards at Craven Arms, Church Stretton and Shrewsbury :P I could be wrong though. I imagine they'd be advertised as a Swansea service and then further on into the HoW I imagine it would then be Newport, or alternatively as a Newport via Swansea and Cardiff service.

It would be REALLY cool if it went back up to Shrewsbury via the main line through Hereford in a HUGE circle! It would get into Shrewsbury for about 1245 that would be pretty awesome! It would probably be the biggest circular service in the country!

Some sources, such as the National Rail iPhone app, say that the 0519 Shrewsbury to Newport now departs at 0523; however, Real Time Trains still says it departs at 0519, as shown here.

Either one, it still gets into Newport for 1037.

 

[PHILIPE]

They don't rin through from Shrewsbury to Newport for the benefit of passengers from Shrewsbury !!! Just passengers within South Wales. The HOW line is a bit of a combination of local services joined up.

 

[cmjcf]

They don't rin through from Shrewsbury to Newport for the benefit of passengers from Shrewsbury !!!

Hence me wondering how the train is advertised at stations on that end of the line. :roll:

Nonetheless, it is certainly an "odd through train".

 

[RochdalePioneers]

As I lived in London at the time and my parents live in Rochdale I used the NorthWestern Trains service several times. Was always a 158 when I used it, and was pretty well loaded south of Manchester Victoria. Stopped at Newton le Willows, Warrington Bank Quay and (I think) Litchfield, and always felt faster than it was thanks to prolonged Max speed running.

Also did the Airport train once as it was booked for the 309. Stops at Wilmslow, Sandbach (for a looong time in the loop) and not sure where to the south. If the 158 felt quick it was nothing compared to the *ahem* lively ride on Clacton's former finest

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[Eagle]

Hence me wondering how the train is advertised at stations on that end of the line. :roll:

Probably the same way that Swansea services via the HoW are advertised (Shrewsbury to Llanelli is slightly quicker, albeit longer mileage, on the direct trains via Abergavenny and Cardiff). Something like "Swansea via Llandrindod" or whatever.

 

[David Barrett]

A few Lincolnshire oddities from the past: there was, up to around 1960, an afternoon Cleethorpes to Penistone working whose purpose was, I suspect, connected with returning vans to Manchester in connection with the newspaper train although I have never had this confirmed. Then there was a working, afternoons again, from New Holland Pier to Lincoln Central which was finally withdrawn in 1968. The LNER started a through weekday Service from Cleethorpes to Leeds in the morning with an afternoon return both via the West Riding Joint between Stainforth and Adwick, the outward leg being withdrawn in 1968 but the return working perhaps inexplicably survived for another eleven years. Later, around 1988 if I recall correctly, the first weekday Passenger service from Cleethorpes via Doncaster was advertised as a through train to Sleaford via Gainsborough Lea Road and Lincoln.

 

[Deerfold]

I think the "oddest" and certainly most macabre through service ever offered was that by the London Necropolis Railway from Waterloo to Brookwood Cemetery.
I remember reading that 1st, 2nd & 3rd class return tickets were on sale for mourners, but only singles for coffins.

With separate compartments depending on religious persuasion - couldn't have mourning CofE pax mingling with distraught non-conformists...

They had 1st, 2nd and 3rd class funerals too.

 

[dannypye9999]

^ Tenby used to get a few summer Saturday services (I think even an overnighter Fri/Sat) from the North-East way back when. Seems strange now perhaps but run of the mill back then.

You are spot on, there used to be an overnight intercity holidaymaker from Manchester Picc to Tenby.

Got the information from the 1989 summer national rail timetable (Table 51 - I have the whole collection of these upto 1991)

MAN PICC 00:21
STOCKPORT 00:29
CREWE 01:01
STAFFORD 01:22
WOLVERHAMPTON 01:39
BIRMINGHAM NEW ST 01:58 (arrive) 02:13 (depart)
CARDIFF CENT 04:26
LLANELLI 05:28
KIDWELLY 05:39
WHITLAND 06:09
SANDERSFOOT 06:29
TENBY 06:36

this then forms 08:20 to York service.


During this year there were some pretty good services including 00:25so Plymouth to Manchester Picc.

 

[Masbroughlad]

^ Tenby used to get a few summer Saturday services (I think even an overnighter Fri/Sat) from the North-East way back when. Seems strange now perhaps but run of the mill back then.

You are spot on, there used to be an overnight intercity holidaymaker from Manchester Picc to Tenby.

Got the information from the 1989 summer national rail timetable (Table 51 - I have the whole collection of these upto 1991)

MAN PICC 00:21
STOCKPORT 00:29
CREWE 01:01
STAFFORD 01:22
WOLVERHAMPTON 01:39
BIRMINGHAM NEW ST 01:58 (arrive) 02:13 (depart)
CARDIFF CENT 04:26
LLANELLI 05:28
KIDWELLY 05:39
WHITLAND 06:09
SANDERSFOOT 06:29
TENBY 06:36

this then forms 08:20 to York service.


During this year there were some pretty good services including 00:25so Plymouth to Manchester Picc.

What would the loco/s and stock have been on this?

I remember as a child in the early eighties going to watch night holidaymaker services at Rotherham Masbrough on summer Fridays.....Newquay, Plymouth, Paignton if I recall correctly. Were there others?

 

[dannypye9999]

What would the loco/s and stock have been on this?

I remember as a child in the early eighties going to watch night holidaymaker services at Rotherham Masbrough on summer Fridays.....Newquay, Plymouth, Paignton if I recall correctly. Were there others?

They were 47's hauling 5 cars of mk1 (these carriages were often the ones that had the slide open windows, often used on charter trains today but I think this type of carriage was withdrawn. I cant rememeber seeing any in use when virgin took over the route)


Overnight holidaymakers were always popular during 80's/90's. And Birmingham New Street used to be a busy station from 00:01 until 07:00 on Friday nights/Saturday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I remember a very odd train from Birmingham N St - Manchester Picc VIA LIVERPOOL!!!

As far as I remember the timetable suggested that from Birmingham N St it calls at
Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe, Runcorn and Liverpool L St - before reversing and terminating at Manchester Picc on Platform 13.

I Never got round to seeing this train in operation, but timetable could also suggest it was a split at Crewe with 1st portion to Liverpool and rear portion to Manchester or maybe just a simple timetable error. I think was around 1992/3

 

[Donny158]

I'm sure there was a random Middlesbrough-Stranraer service a few years ago?? I also remember boarding a train to Skegness from Worksop in the 80's and seem to remember it coming from Manchester??