Trivia: Most interesting bit of timetabling?

[AJDesiro]

Over recent months I’ve noticed that there’s an interesting bit of timetabling at Birmingham New Street for the Wolverhampton / Rugeley services.

What effectively happens is the Wolverhampton train gets into the B end of the platform first, then the Rugeley train gets into the A end. The Wolverhampton train leaves roughly 4 minutes before the Rugeley train, with that then following it out of New Street.

It got me thinking, are there any bits of timetabling that you find interesting?

I feel like this might be a rather niche subject…

 

[generalnerd]

Over recent months I’ve noticed that there’s an interesting bit of timetabling at Birmingham New Street for the Wolverhampton / Rugeley services.

What effectively happens is the Wolverhampton train gets into the B end of the platform first, then the Rugeley train gets into the A end. The Wolverhampton train leaves roughly 4 minutes before the Rugeley train, with that then following it out of New Street.

It got me thinking, are there any bits of timetabling that you find interesting?

I feel like this might be a rather niche subject…

London overground used to have a train go into a siding and wait for another train to pass. Both trains were terminating at the same platform and the train behind the train pulled over was supposed to be quite a few mins away from the train that was pulled over.

Also, not particularly timetabling but (correct me if I’m wrong) minutes on metro systems around the world are actually distance measurements, so will sometimes stay at ‘X minutes away’ for longer than 1 minute

 

[30907]

London overground used to have a train go into a siding and wait for another train to pass. Both trains were terminating at the same platform and the train behind the train pulled over was supposed to be quite a few mins away from the train that was pulled over.

Intriguing - do you have some detail, as the routes aren't over endowed with overtaking opportunities?

 

[mm333]

Intriguing - do you have some detail, as the routes aren't over endowed with overtaking opportunities?

There’s a thread about it here:

Does the 1tpd London Overground Woodgrange Park to Willesden Junction service still run

I found this video from 2016 of a London Overground service that Runs from the GOBLIN onto the NLL , any idea if this still runs with the 710s or 378's , the only footage I can find on this is with 172's.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Fenchurch SP]

At Thorpe-le-Soken where the fast Liverpool Street to Clacton and the stopping Colchester to Walton branch train are timed to stop either side of the island platform so easy interchange is possible, similarly in the other direction.

 

[Snow1964]

Couple of oddities at Bristol :

The 09:51 Warminster - Gloucester passes platform 11 to use platform 12 at south end, waits ages, reverses then returns through platform 11, meanwhile the 10:09 Gloucester-Westbury uses platform 11

The 05:10 from Bristol TM to Paddington is the only London service from Wiltshires County town, Trowbridge, there is no direct return service from London. It also is one of the rare trains that don't stop at Bath Spa. Off topic I think Matlock is only other English county town without a direct train from London

 

[Class15]

London overground used to have a train go into a siding and wait for another train to pass. Both trains were terminating at the same platform and the train behind the train pulled over was supposed to be quite a few mins away from the train that was pulled over.

Was this on Platform 2 at Clapham Jn?

There’s a thread about it here:

Does the 1tpd London Overground Woodgrange Park to Willesden Junction service still run

I found this video from 2016 of a London Overground service that Runs from the GOBLIN onto the NLL , any idea if this still runs with the 710s or 378's , the only footage I can find on this is with 172's.

www.railforums.co.uk

I doubt that’s the same thing, the ex-Woodgrange Park service went into the low level bay at Willesden.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Off topic I think Matlock is only other English county town without a direct train from London

Shrewsbury?

It's a long time ago now, but I was impressed when BR Western used to route a fast commuter loco-hauled Paddington-Didcot service via the Up Relief platform 4 at Twyford, in order to overtake a DMU stopper in P3.
Intelligent use of the bi-di facilities through Twyford.

 

[BeijingDave]

Shrewsbury?

Dorchester (Dorset)?

Also, Beverley is the traditional county town of the East Riding of Yorkshire

 

[Eloise]

Dorchester (South) has a half hourly service to London Waterloo.

 

[Kite159]

Dorchester (Dorset)?

Also, Beverley is the traditional county town of the East Riding of Yorkshire

And last time I checked Beverley gets a couple trains to/from London a day from Hull Trains.

 

[BeijingDave]

And last time I checked Beverley gets a couple trains to/from London a day from Hull Trains.

So it does!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Off topic I think Matlock is only other English county town without a direct train from London

Other than Newport (IOW) of course

 

[mm333]

Before COVID, there was just one train a day, I think was about 0830 TPX from Leeds to Hull that went fast through Brough. Every other train stopped there.

 

[Acfb]

There's a non stop Scotrail service from Edinburgh to North Berwick on a Saturday morning as there's an LNER service behind.

Also the Northbound TPE service from Berwick to Edinburgh crosses over at Dunbar to Platform 1 at 16.40 on a Saturday then waits 12 minutes to allow XC behind to overtake and also a southbound LNER service to pass.

 

[jadmor]

Many years ago, in the 60s, there was a service from Edinburgh to Fife that utilised 3 DMU units that divided at Dunfermline Lower. (The 17:33 ex Edinburgh).
the first portionran to Perth, the second to Dunfermline Upper (timed for 2o minutes, could be walked in about 10)and the third to Thornton Junction.

 

[generalnerd]

And last time I checked Beverley gets a couple trains to/from London a day from Hull Trains.

Speaking of Beverly, I was there today and they are offloading passengers on one platform, running along the line (it is closed for engineering works) until just after the switch and then coming back on the other platform. Very unique I thought and it’s interesting to see how the display boards demonstrate how You cannot board from that platform.

 

[DanNCL]

Now that there's two trains per hour between Newcastle and Carlisle, terminating trains at Hexham usually arrive at Platform 1, shunt to Platform 2 via the signalbox and then return east from Platform 2. Often this results in parallel arrivals at both platforms from the same direction as the shunt move will arrive at Platform 2 from the East at the same time as a Newcastle to Carlisle service arrives at Platform 1.

Also, not particularly timetabling but (correct me if I’m wrong) minutes on metro systems around the world are actually distance measurements, so will sometimes stay at ‘X minutes away’ for longer than 1 minute

The Tyne & Wear Metro is one of those systems, at least as far as the station display screens go anyway. If the trains stop for 5 minutes somewhere they'll remain on the screen at stations further along as 'X minutes away' for that period. If you're at South Gosforth it's not unheard of for the next southbound trains of both lines to be 'X minutes away', and the passengers won't actually know which train is arriving first until it arrives at the platform. Same goes for Northbound trains at Pelaw.

 

[A S Leib]

Off topic I think Matlock is only other English county town without a direct train from London

Going off of lord lieutenantships, Cumbria still exists, but one of the two contenders for Westmorland's county town, Appleby, definitely doesn't have London services and Kendal would be dependent on counting Oxenholme as Kendal. A bit more on-topic, Oakham's only London service joins / divides with a Nottingham service in both directions, which I think makes it the only service to divide / combine at Kettering.

 

[30907]

There’s a thread about it here:

Does the 1tpd London Overground Woodgrange Park to Willesden Junction service still run

I found this video from 2016 of a London Overground service that Runs from the GOBLIN onto the NLL , any idea if this still runs with the 710s or 378's , the only footage I can find on this is with 172's.

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks, that makes more sense than the original description.

 

[ayubdaud]

What's the thinking with this Class 2 Northern train that is non-stop from Sheffield to Piccadilly on Sundays (2s77 21:35)? Seems an odd service.

Realtime Trains | 2S77 2135 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly | 23/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 2S77 2135 departure from Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly on 23/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[BeijingDave]

What's the thinking with this Class 2 Northern train that is non-stop from Sheffield to Piccadilly on Sundays (2s77 21:35)? Seems an odd service.

Realtime Trains | 2S77 2135 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly | 23/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 2S77 2135 departure from Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly on 23/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

As I recall, it is non-stop so it can go any route (including via Huddersfield) for route knowledge retention.

 

[Tractor37]

As I recall, it is non-stop so it can go any route (including via Huddersfield) for route knowledge retention.

Only Manchester Piccadilly crews work the Hope Valley (Northern services) and that is the only route they sign between Manchester and Sheffield so will not run on any other route for route retention purposes. So unsure as to why it runs non stop.

 

[WAB]

Only Manchester Piccadilly crews work the Hope Valley (Northern services) and that is the only route they sign between Manchester and Sheffield so will not run on any other route for route retention purposes. So unsure as to why it runs non stop.

Perhaps it’s for the ECS? Particularly slots into Longsight at that time of night?

 

[Kite159]

Only Manchester Piccadilly crews work the Hope Valley (Northern services) and that is the only route they sign between Manchester and Sheffield so will not run on any other route for route retention purposes. So unsure as to why it runs non stop.

Although I would imagine the crew also sign the potential route going via Hazel Grove, skipping out via Marple.

 

[jfollows]

There’s a 22:16 stopper Sheffield-Manchester also, so possibly 2S77 runs fast to free up space on the later train from through passengers rather than running ECS? Especially given the number of Sheffield-Manchester passengers on the stoppers these days, I gather, thanks to Northern’s advance tickets.

 

[Bald Rick]

What's the thinking with this Class 2 Northern train that is non-stop from Sheffield to Piccadilly on Sundays (2s77 21:35)? Seems an odd service.

Realtime Trains | 2S77 2135 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly | 23/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 2S77 2135 departure from Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly on 23/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Educated guess is that it is to get the crew back within a maximum shift length. Not braking and accelerating will also save a pretty penny on fuel.

 

[ayubdaud]

Educated guess is that it is to get the crew back within a maximum shift length. Not braking and accelerating will also save a pretty penny on fuel.

Sounds fair enough. the only other thought was whether it was just a legacy from Dore being single track and there was something else higher priority to get into Sheffield and what's left is the only path without getting late back to Manchester as the arrival is on par with the standard pattern.

 

[sjoh]

I'm always impressed by the overall neat hourly timetable pattern on the West Anglia mainline between Liverpool St/Stratford and Bishops Stortford which accommodates 4 cambridge (in the peaks), 2 bishops, 4 stansteds, and 2 hertfords all with a mix of stopping/semi patterns every hour on a 2 track railway, and also has to weave through stopping chingford services between liv st and clapton. It's a masterpiece.

 

[driverd]

Educated guess is that it is to get the crew back within a maximum shift length. Not braking and accelerating will also save a pretty penny on fuel.

Crew diagrams are based around the timetable, the timetable isn't generally written around crew requirements.

My guess would be that this is essentially an ECS in public service. The service probably exists for the previous working (MAN - SHF), this one probably just gets the unit back. Likely to be a freight path on the hope valley or perhaps paths onto depot that prevent it from stopping everywhere.