Trivia - longest time without a brand new bus

[SSmith2009]

Arriva Tamworth, I don’t think they’ve had a new bus since the 44XX E400 were new in 2014.
Probably likewise Arriva Shrewsbury/Telford.


It seems all new buses go into Leicester at Arriva Midlands.

Derby had their streetlites in 2018...

the electrics in Leicester were part of ZEBRA funding and the 72 plate E400mmcs were to replace older E400mmcs which moved down to Kent.

 

[RUK]

I believe Arriva Southend didn’t have anything new between Dennis Trident 2/Alexander ALX400s in 2000, mostly used on routes 7 and 8, which were there for 5 years, and Optare Versas, initially for route 1, in 2013.

 

[stevieinselby]

Yorkshire Coastliner haven't had any new buses since 2018, before then they would regularly get new buses every 2-3 years

If I was in Transdev's shoes, I would want to get an order in for new buses for Coastliner pretty soon – the longer they leave it, the bigger the risk that manufacturers will pull their diesel buses from sale, without there necessarily being an electric bus that is up to the demands of the route available yet.

 

[Eyersey468]

If I was in Transdev's shoes, I would want to get an order in for new buses for Coastliner pretty soon – the longer they leave it, the bigger the risk that manufacturers will pull their diesel buses from sale, without there necessarily being an electric bus that is up to the demands of the route available yet.

I agree, I don't think any of the electric buses currently on the market are really suited to that route

 

[DunsBus]

Other than a pair of Scania N112s new in 1982, Tyne & Wear PTE went five years without a large new bus intake. After the EJR-W Atlanteans were delivered in December 1980, it wouldn't be until December 1985 that the next batch of new buses started to arrive - the first of the C-LFT Olympians.

 

[Statto]

Rock Ferry depot went years without new buses under its previous owner First Group, they had a batch of low floor Scanias in 1998 then nothing until Stagecoach bought Rock Ferry in 2013.

 

[mattb7tl]

First operations will likely top these lists. It seems they have a different approach to other larger companies which tend to upgrade the interurban or flagship services every 7-8 years (even in the lower performing operations) and pass the buses down in the same operation. First has quite a chunk of operations which have not seen investment since 2014, 2015, and 2016. That includes lucrative operations so it must be an intentional strategy rather than financial issues.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I agree, I don't think any of the electric buses currently on the market are really suited to that route

Battery technology is continuing to develop so your statement could eventually become out of date. Equally there is also the opportunity charging option: I'm sure Transdev will be monitoring the performance of the Env400EV fleet on the 36 quite closely with at least half an eye on this very issue.

 

[MotCO]

I agree, I don't think any of the electric buses currently on the market are really suited to that route

Or maybe hydrogen buses are the answer?

 

[Eyersey468]

Or maybe hydrogen buses are the answer?

Going a bit off topic, sorry mods, while hydrogen could be an answer I believe it requires more expensive infrastructure than electric does

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2025 ==

Battery technology is continuing to develop so your statement could eventually become out of date. Equally there is also the opportunity charging option: I'm sure Transdev will be monitoring the performance of the Env400EV fleet on the 36 quite closely with at least half an eye on this very issue.

Yes I'm sure battery technology will improve over time

 

[Russel]

Arriva Tamworth, I don’t think they’ve had a new bus since the 44XX E400 were new in 2014.
Probably likewise Arriva Shrewsbury/Telford.

Beat me to it, I was going to suggest Arriva Tamworth.

Though there is the supposed Electric deckers on the way to replace the E400s, but given the almost total radio silence since the initial Staffs County Council announcement over 12 months ago, who knows what is going on with them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2025 ==

Was Hedingham's last new buses the Enviros from 2010?

Hedingham is certainly Go-Aheads dumping ground, it has the feel of a cowboy independent than part of a national group.

Or maybe hydrogen buses are the answer?

Please no, hydrogen buses just don't seem to succeed, look at National Express West Mids as a prime example, I recall reading somewhere that First aren't having much luck with theirs in Aberdeen either.

 

[Teapot42]

Please no, hydrogen buses just don't seem to succeed, look at National Express West Mids as a prime example, I recall reading somewhere that First aren't having much luck with theirs in Aberdeen either.

The infrastructure is much more expensive, and I suspect the government funding to get it off the ground hasn't been big enough to truly kick-start things.

However, I wonder if we aren't approaching a point where adding EV charging capacity becomes harder so there might become an opportunity for hydrogen to gain a foothold. The National Grid needs upgrading to support significant EV charging, both in terms of transport capacity, storage and generation. You read stories that solar installations can't get connected to the grid for example, and while renewables are growing the storage to match generation and demand isn't.

It will be interesting to see what impact Zebra funding has on the grid. Am I right in thinking most funding went to smaller towns and cities? I do wonder what will happen if somewhere like Manchester decides to go all-in on EVs for example. Installing chargers is one thing, getting them grid connected is another.

 

[Russel]

The infrastructure is much more expensive, and I suspect the government funding to get it off the ground hasn't been big enough to truly kick-start things.

However, I wonder if we aren't approaching a point where adding EV charging capacity becomes harder so there might become an opportunity for hydrogen to gain a foothold. The National Grid needs upgrading to support significant EV charging, both in terms of transport capacity, storage and generation. You read stories that solar installations can't get connected to the grid for example, and while renewables are growing the storage to match generation and demand isn't.

It will be interesting to see what impact Zebra funding has on the grid. Am I right in thinking most funding went to smaller towns and cities? I do wonder what will happen if somewhere like Manchester decides to go all-in on EVs for example. Installing chargers is one thing, getting them grid connected is another.

Doesn't Hydrogen take a lot of energy to produce though, bringing it's green credentials into question?

 

[Teapot42]

Doesn't Hydrogen take a lot of energy to produce though, bringing it's green credentials into question?

I suspect it's a question of which is the worst? Current battery tech uses elements which are in fairly short supply and often come from conflict zones or countries with poor human rights records.

I recall reading about a system which uses solar to produce hydrogen which was more energy efficient, and of course the benefit of hydrogen is it's more of a storage medium than anything, and renewable at that.

It may be something like sodium battery tech improves to the point where it's cheap and clean to make, and can be scaled to volumes where storage is no longer a concern. Or some other tech comes along to generate electricity at point of use from a readily available medium. Until a technology emerges that has significant benefits over all others it's worth carrying on working on them all.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Doesn't Hydrogen take a lot of energy to produce though, bringing it's green credentials into question?

It depends on how you produce your power, if it is from renewables it is less of an issue. Hydrogen is less efficient than pure batteries but if you can't get the range out of the batteries you can fit then it is cleaner than diesel if your production method is clean.

Please no, hydrogen buses just don't seem to succeed, look at National Express West Mids as a prime example, I recall reading somewhere that First aren't having much luck with theirs in Aberdeen either.

The infrastructure is much more expensive, and I suspect the government funding to get it off the ground hasn't been big enough to truly kick-start things.

I understand from reports the issue in Aberdeen is that both of the fuel stations, which are some of the earliest to be installed in the UK, were both closed for refurbishment at the same time. Bad planning from someone to not stagger the work to keep one open but not the fault of the technology itself.
Hydrogen seems to be stuck in a chicken & egg situation, not enough demand to pull in the investment but not enough investment to drive demand. Not sure why some operators (West Midlands & Liverpool) are struggling to get supply when others appear to have less issue (Metrobus) though it may be as simple as who owns/controls the fuelling station as Metrobus has their own (which came with its own issues around planning permission for the site) while most of the have to use a 3rd party site which leaves you in the sort of situation that Aberdeen has that the operator may shut it down short term or long term and leave you with no solution.
It probably could do with some government driven investment into the production facilities to ensure a certain level of supply to meet specific needs like public transport so we avoid these issues of 3rd party fuelling stations not getting the supply needed.