Trivia: locations which have services to London from 2 different termini

[z444z]

London.

Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Euston, Fenchurch Street, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, King's Cross, Marylebone, Moorgate, Paddington, St Pancras, Victoria, and Waterloo all have services which go to London

And I thought my answer was cheeky….

 

[michael8]

Portsmouth Harbour and Portsmouth & Southsea (as it is also a terminus station). Don't really understand this question to be honest.

 

[Kilopylae]

Which are the 2 terminus stations in Exeter?

Perhaps this user has time travelled from 1860 and doesn't know about the Queen St-St David's link!

 

[Kite159]

Which are the 2 terminus stations in Exeter?

Exeter Central when SWR are running late and get spun in the bay platform

 

[enginedin]

Don't really understand this question to be honest.

apparently a lot of people don't - this is my fault for not understanding the nuances of what makes a "terminus". I now know it's not a simple definition, but I don't know how to define it.

 

[Falcon1200]

I thought the opening post was asking for examples of places that have services to London from two different termini

Yes indeed, missed that rather important condition!

 

[Steve Harris]

apparently a lot of people don't - this is my fault for not understanding the nuances of what makes a "terminus". I now know it's not a simple definition, but I don't know how to define it.

In the olden days it would be a station without any through platforms (ie every platform had buffers at the end) In steam days you would obviously have to put another engine on the back for the train to go back out (so most services would terminate there), what with the invention of rail cars (DMU's) where the driver just changes ends, a lot of ex terminal stations now have through services (Swansea being one example I can think of). So perhaps you could use the olden rules ? So Portsmouth Harbour (but not Southsea), Glasgow Central High Level, Skegness etc etc.

 

[yorkie]

In the olden days it would be a station without any through platforms (ie every platform had buffers at the end) In steam days you would obviously have to put another engine on the back for the train to go back out (so most services would terminate there), what with the invention of rail cars (DMU's) where the driver just changes ends, a lot of ex terminal stations now have through services (Swansea being one example I can think of). So perhaps you could use the olden rules ?

For trivia threads, the criteria should be properly defined, be consistent, and make sense, but doesn't have to meet any particular (historic) "rule".

It would be fine to define it as a station where most trains terminate, or most platforms have buffers, or no through platforms, as long as it's measurable, consistent and unambiguous.

So Portsmouth Harbour (but not Southsea),

The opening poster excluded BMO, which is exactly the same layout as PMS. So there needs to be consistency.

Glasgow Central High Level, Skegness etc etc.

Glasgow Central is one station, not two. It's fine to include it, if it matches the stated criteria, but I don't think it's right to claim it's two separate stations.

 

[Steve Harris]

For trivia threads, the criteria should be properly defined, be consistent, and make sense, but doesn't have to meet any particular (historic) "rule".

It would be fine to define it as a station where most trains terminate, or most platforms have buffers, or no through platforms, as long as it's measurable, consistent and unambiguous.

The opening poster excluded BMO, which is exactly the same layout as PMS. So there needs to be consistency.

Glasgow Central is one station, not two. It's fine to include it, if it matches the stated criteria, but I don't think it's right to claim it's two separate stations.

The problem is that stations that were termini are no longer so because of the invention of the railcar, and therefore it is very hard to define what a terminal station is.

As you correctly point out, the original post should have laid out clear definitions, but this can be very hard at times, for instance I'm sure nearly all members would take Bishop Auckland Paignton as a terminus, but it doesn't have buffer stops. And some stations with buffer stops have through services. I think it's actually nigh on impossible to define a terminus (with the question which is posed) unless its layout is similar to Newquay

I just merely laid out a suggestion which could be used to define a terminus as before DMU's things were more clear-cut (and easier to understand). Of course the enginedin can choose something different. I was just trying to help.

 

[Kite159]

Bishop Auckland does have buffer stops as the platform is on a separate line to the link for the Weardale line.

Unlike say Matlock or Alton where the track continues towards the heritage lines

 

[Lloyds siding]

I thought the Paddington trains were from Birkenhead Woodside. Were there trains from Liverpool as well?

The trains from Lime Street started after Woodside closed, largely to replace that route. Picture of one here Facebook page of 1970s Railscene..this showing a Lime Street to Paddington train

 

[Steve Harris]

Bishop Auckland does have buffer stops as the platform is on a separate line to the link for the Weardale line.

Unlike say Matlock or Alton where the track continues towards the heritage lines

I'll substitute Paignton for Bishops Auckland then (as the last time I was at BA there were no stops).

 

[A S Leib]

Would Uxbridge have counted when Vine Street was open (slightly fudging the question of Uxbridge, Middlesex not being in London and Paddington, Middlesex being in it, although in 1904 I suspect it would have been rural enough to count as a separate settlement)?

 

[higthomas]

Watford is pretty close to counting. Obviously Watford Met is a terminus, and Watford Junction is a terminus for the DC lines, with the 3rd rail continuing no further.

 

[xotGD]

Would Leeds have counted back in the day?

Were there services to St Pancras from what are now the bay platforms at Leeds City?

 

[D6130]

Would Leeds have counted back in the day?

Were there services to St Pancras from what are now the bay platforms at Leeds City?

They went from the Midland Railway Wellington Street station, which was a separate station until the art-deco North Concourse was constructed in 1938. Following the 1967 rationalisation and resignalling, Wellington became the parcels depot....with the current platform 1 being the only remaining one from the old station. There is still a short section of Midland Railway 'ridge and furrow' platform canopy about a third of the way along that platform.... probably the oldest remaining part of the current Leeds station.

 

[xotGD]

They went from the Midland Railway Wellington Street station, which was a separate station until the art-deco North Concourse was constructed in 1938. Following the 1967 rationalisation and resignalling, Wellington became the parcels depot....with the current platform 1 being the only remaining one from the old station. There is still a short section of Midland Railway 'ridge and furrow' platform canopy about a third of the way along that platform.... probably the oldest remaining part of the current Leeds station.

So that's a "yes" then?

 

[Djgr]

The trains from Lime Street started after Woodside closed, largely to replace that route. Picture of one here Facebook page of 1970s Railscene..this showing a Lime Street to Paddington train

I had forgotten about this. Did these end up being replaced with trains through Kensington Olympia that ended up South coast-ish?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Historical one - Plymouth Millbay (GWR) and Friary (LSWR). Also did Cromer (High) and Cromer (Beach) have London services at the same time - Summer Saturdays maybe?

 

[nw1]

Thanks both. I've only arrived at those platforms on the stopper from Southampton, otherwise I'm heading for the island.

Used to be the case that the hourly '73' stopper from Waterloo would terminate at Southsea. In the 80s several of these extended to Harbour for operational reasons as '83's (interworking with the semi-fast '82') but on Saturdays before 1986 and 6 days a week from 1989-92, it was hourly '73's off-peak.

Furthermore, after Solent electrification, there was the odd '70' Waterloo via Eastleigh that would start from/terminate at Southsea.

That said, I don't think any Victoria services used Southsea in this era, certainly not on a regular basis. Maybe one or two very early and very late?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jan 2026 ==

Bishop Auckland does have buffer stops as the platform is on a separate line to the link for the Weardale line.

Unlike say Matlock or Alton where the track continues towards the heritage lines

I suppose you could claim Alton because it's the terminus of the regular ex-BR service. Are there buffer stops on Platform 1? Can't remember, last time I actually used the station I travelled on a VEP...

That said, there's only one station there in any case, rendering the point moot.

 

[Kite159]

Used to be the case that the hourly '73' stopper from Waterloo would terminate at Southsea. In the 80s several of these extended to Harbour for operational reasons as '83's (interworking with the semi-fast '82') but on Saturdays before 1986 and 6 days a week from 1989-92, it was hourly '73's off-peak.

Furthermore, after Solent electrification, there was the odd '70' Waterloo via Eastleigh that would start from/terminate at Southsea.

That said, I don't think any Victoria services used Southsea in this era, certainly not on a regular basis. Maybe one or two very early and very late?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jan 2026 ==



I suppose you could claim Alton because it's the terminus of the regular ex-BR service. Are there buffer stops on Platform 1? Can't remember, last time I actually used the station I travelled on a VEP...

That said, there's only one station there in any case, rendering the point moot.

Alton P1 has buffers, P2 has the connection to the Mid Hants.

It all depends what people define as a 'terminus'.

 

[Gloster]

Long ago Swansea had through coaches from Victoria to Euston in addition to Paddington trains from High Street.

 

[Uncle Buck]

What routes were taken by trains from Liverpool and Manchester to King’s Cross?

 

[yorkie]

What routes were taken by trains from Liverpool and Manchester to King’s Cross?

What trains were these? Do you have some diversions in mind?

 

[Falcon1200]

The trains from Lime Street started after Woodside closed, largely to replace that route.

Not sure the Liverpool/Paddington trains were intended to replace the Woodside service; IIRC they only started some years after Woodside closed, and were a means of linking existing services to improve connectivity and resource utilisation.

 

[317 forever]

Fairly sure Manchester Victoria had Euston services too at one point (before the Ordsall Curve was reinstated).

Euston-Stockport-Victoria-Glasgow through service, which then moved over to Piccadilly after the chord.

I think the Manchester Victoria service started at Rochdale and was a limited service by North Western, using 158s.

 

[nw1]

Not sure the Liverpool/Paddington trains were intended to replace the Woodside service; IIRC they only started some years after Woodside closed, and were a means of linking existing services to improve connectivity and resource utilisation.

Are we talking about the "XC" via-Birmingham-and-Crewe services, or was there a phase when there were some via Chester, Wrexham and Shrewsbury?

The former were typically, as you say, to improve connectivity and resource utilisation, basically Paddington-Birmingham services then running forward as Birmingham-Liverpool. One example from the period when Birmingham-Liverpool was a regular 2-hourly service at xx55 even hours was the 1350 Paddington-Liverpool from 1981, working forward as the 1655 from Birmingham.

In 1983 we had the 1307 Paddington-Liverpool which was the 1555 from New St (by this time, the Birmingham-Liverpool pattern had become less regular, no longer even-interval 2 hourly with some Liverpools on the odd-hours xx55 and some Manchesters on the even-hours).

 

[Falcon1200]

Are we talking about the "XC" via-Birmingham-and-Crewe services

Yes!

or was there a phase when there were some via Chester, Wrexham and Shrewsbury?

I am not aware of any such services, but happy to be corrected. It would seem an awfully convoluted route when Chester and Shrewsbury still had London trains anyway.

 

[BeijingDave]

Yes!



I am not aware of any such services, but happy to be corrected. It would seem an awfully convoluted route when Chester and Shrewsbury still had London trains anyway.

I am not sure if this existed but there were many convoluted routes in the days of the nationalized railway, which were less about direct A to B times but linking up towns and cities in-between.

 

[D9006]

Fairly sure Manchester Victoria had Euston services too at one point (before the Ordsall Curve was reinstated).

Euston-Stockport-Victoria-Glasgow through service, which then moved over to Piccadilly after the chord.

Travelled on but was from Paddington to Bolton(never again), 6 hours