But what lines are out there that wouldn't pass the Beeching Test today?
There's quite a few lines existing lines that would have a poor case were there a modern day Beeching report.
Whilst we see record passenger numbers (compared to the physical number of miles of railway) and growing every year, there are still a lot of stations/ lines used by trivially small numbers - which means a number of services not suited to mass transportation like railways.
If they can't generate more than a couple of passengers a day (
at a time of record passenger numbers on the overall network) then when will they? You can excuse low passenger numbers on a line when passenger numbers are low overall, but if they aren't busy in 2014 then when will they be?
For example, looking at the passenger numbers at stations between Knottingley and Goole, you couldn't justify a Dial-A-Ride minibus to serve that few people, yet we are running trains!
The problem is that every time you suggest a closure (on the proviso that the resources spent propping up some hopeless line should be used to tackle bottlenecks/ lack of seats/ inadequate frequencies on busier lines) then you hit a brick wall of denial from enthusiasts who can't deal with the reality of the twenty first century.
For example, there's the justification that we need to keep every route open because it'll be handy for diversions. Whilst nobody would prefer a replacement bus service, sometimes it's better to be realistic and appreciate that having to take a bus a couple of weekends a year is better than keeping other routes available "just in case".
Conversely there are lines closed by Beeching that should be open today
I agree that there were some routes closed in the 1960s that would have been well used today - hindsight is marvellous - I'm not saying that every closure was correct (or every retained route should have survived)...
Delving into closure of the Harrogate-Ripon-Northallerton line I discovered that the case put forward by Beeching was pure lies and evil. The line was making sufficient profit to keep open but he lied about operating costs so that a duplicate route could be closed. He must have been paid on commission.
...but then you get into conspiracy theory territory and there seems little point in arguing over the rights and wrongs of a particular route.
Operating costs of these trains was not saved by closing the line as they were diverted via York. In fact operating costs were greater as the route via York is 15 miles longer. This was not considered in the profit and loss columns
Depends on how you look at it. A Leeds - York - Newcastle service is also a Leeds - York service and a York - Newcastle service (so may save additional services from being required) - those markets are both going to be bigger than the equivalent demand from Ripon.
There were many pigeon specials each year using the freight yard for release of the pigeons. Not one was credited to revenue of the line
Do you think that "pigeon specials" would have made much difference to the line?
Do you think they'd still be going today?
Rail should always be kept open
As to the title of the thread, apart from old industrial lines to collieries and the like, no railway line should be closed
In answer to the original post,
None of them
There seems like a certain brick wall/ head interface issue when you are trying to have a debate about line closures with people who can't accept any single closure... if you want to be in denial then fair enough, but there doesn't seem much point in contributing to this kind of thread if you are dead against any single closure...
We need to sticky some sort of Beeching thread as all these "everything must reopen" ones get tedious.
We do (and also for "Pacer Replacement" / "North Of England Is Getting A Rough Deal" etc) but we are doomed to have the same arguments over and over again in different threads.
I suggested some "megathreads" in the past (they seemed to work well for discussing Grand Central, HS2 and Manchester Metrolink), but the Forum mood seems to be against them.
the Barton branch seems rather short and easy to replace with a bus
The Barton line seems a weak one - it had its purpose when you needed a ferry over the Humber - and therefore took a train to the river - but now you can drive directly from Grimsby/Cleethorpes or use the regular buses to Hull, the railway is stuck serving a market that no longer exists.
It was useful once, but we are stuck with it today.
Saying every line should have stayed open would have resulted in lots of pointless duplications
Agreed
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but there are probably a number of other routes now long closed that would also now see a 1 or 2-car multiple unit "rammed" on a Saturday where this was not the case fifty or thirty years ago: See, for example, the narrow reprieve gained by the Settle and Carlisle line, which was under very serious threat in the mid 1980s, and contrast that with how well it is doing now, with a far more regular service of well patronised three and four carriage class 158s and a heavy freight traffic
I know that we're not allowed to criticise the S&C (the Queen Mother of railways, beyond reproach), but it only sees a Sprinter every couple of hours - and the station numbers north of Settle aren't very big.
In terms of "departing passengers per day" we get the following:
Armathwaite......................13
Lazonby & Kirkoswald..........24
Langwathby........................34
Appleby.............................84
Kirkby Stephen...................43
Garsdale............................21
Dent..................................14
Ribblehead.........................26
Horton-in-Ribblesdale..........22
...so, with the exception of Appleby, none of them are very high.
Ah happy childhood days when I used to have the beach and dunes to myself when the tourists had gone home.
