Trivia: Largest age difference between rolling stock and signalling

[JordR]

I'm currently half way through an All Line Rover and earlier today was on a Transport for Wales 197 (forget where) that stopped next to a signal box to, I think, receive a train staff to proceed further.

It occurred to me that the line had potentially been signalled that way for a century or more and was being operated by rolling stock less than a decade old.

So trivia question... what are the largest gaps in age (where the signalling is both older or newer) between the various types of signalling and the rolling stock that operates the lines?

 

[PP57601]

Surely any line operated by traditional mechanical signalling (those with or without tokens) and any train built in the past few years would be a contender.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Bootle and Drigg boxes are the oldest working boxes on the mainline, having opened in 1871

That line sees 195s these days, the youngest of which was built in 2020, so 149 years, which I believe is the record

 

[Barnsley]

Goole Bridge box was built in 1869, sees a single LNER 800 ecs to Hull every morning if thats allowed!

 

[Taunton]

Surely any line operated by traditional mechanical signalling (those with or without tokens) and any train built in the past few years would be a contender.

Tokens and tablets require electrical connection between signalboxes, and are somewhat more modern than a wooden staff, so I suspect one of the latter, a few of which are apparently very old, never having had to be replaced, unlike lineside semaphore signals where I don't think any pre-1923 survive. Does anywhere with wooden staffs still have tickets?

 

[MadMac]

Modern stock regularly passes semaphore signals at the oldest box on NR (Hilton Junction) which dates from 1873.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't know the exact dates but the Marches line has 5 signal boxes dating from the early 1870s (Dorrington, Marsh Brook, Bromfield, Woofferton and Leominster).
They see frequent class 197 trains dating from 2023, so an interval of 150 years or more, much longer than for the more famous boxes at Shrewsbury which date from 1902/03.
There was a Network Rail plan to replace all these boxes with control transferred to Cardiff ROC, but that seems to be in abeyance.

 

[D6130]

The Girvan-Stranraer line sees class 156 "Sprinter" DMUs - dating from 1988/89 - signalled by mechanical boxes dating from about a hundred years earlier and using the now unique Tyer's electric tablet single line safety system. Incidentally, I believe that the Down Distant at Glenwhilly is the last remaining semaphore distant in Scotland.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

2001-built Electrostars regularly work in and out of Littlehampton. The signal box there dates from around 1886. There is still semaphore signalling there but it was renewed in 2023.

And how "original" is much of the remaining semaphore signals on the national network? All would have been renewed at some point

 

[rower40]

Going for the smallest difference here!
Tornado was built 2008. Bodmin General box opened 2011. I signalled the former from the latter in 2017.
And my forum picture is of that occasion.

 

[KevinTurvey]

I think Holyhead might be worth a shout, station rebuilt in 1851 and still has semaphores. New Avanti trains date from last year.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Not quite as big numbers but new signalling and old train will probably have some interesting results.
Have any 37s used ETCS on the ECML yet? I know they've ran on the Cambrian which is ~50 year difference.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Not quite as big numbers but new signalling and old train will probably have some interesting results.
Have any 37s used ETCS on the ECML yet? I know they've ran on the Cambrian which is ~50 year difference.

Not just yet but give it time. Oldest ETCS stock on the ECML so far is the RailAdventure HSTs

 

[matchmaker]

My avatar is fairly old - 1880!

 

[elltrain3]

A few weeks back Beeston Castle & Tarporley (1915) signalled a pair of class 93s on a 0Q test run to Rhyl and back, which is quite a contrast, ableit only 111 years, but the difference in technology was quite something!

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Has anyone got examples going the other way? I was sort of reminded of when, during sectorisation, electrification was often planned to operate with a cascaded fleet sometimes for the foreseeable future or just temporarily before a new fleet was ready. The Airedale and Wharfdale lines had their layouts upgraded as well as being electrified and re-signalled (to Leeds PSB, now at York) in 1995 but first worked off rather antiquated class 308s from Anglia region. They dated from 1959 so up to 36 years older than the infrastructure.

 

[Rescars]

In response to the OP, it depends a bit on what is meant by "signalling". Some mechanical boxes are quite elderly, but their frames may have been replaced and the signals they operate may well be a lot younger. Their instruments may have been enhanced a bit over the years too. As D6130 notes, the Stranraer Road has not had too many upgrades.

In similar vein, the last remaining GSWR instruments in use between Kilmarnock and Holywood have only recently been retired - sadly the supply of spare parts appears to have been exhausted.

 

[MadMac]

In response to the OP, it depends a bit on what is meant by "signalling". Some mechanical boxes are quite elderly, but their frames may have been replaced and the signals they operate may well be a lot younger. Their instruments may have been enhanced a bit over the years too. As D6130 notes, the Stranraer Road has not had too many upgrades.

In similar vein, the last remaining GSWR instruments in use between Kilmarnock and Holywood have only recently been retired - sadly the supply of spare parts appears to have been exhausted.

Girvan - Dunragit has the last tablet instruments on NR and the last operating semaphore distant in Scotland. In addition to this, one set of points at Glenwhilly was out of commission for several months due to difficulty in getting components after they were damaged.

Re the G&SW blocks - have they now been formally retired? I know that replacement was “in the works”, but hadn’t heard that they were now gone.

 

[Rescars]

Re the G&SW blocks - have they now been formally retired? I know that replacement was “in the works”, but hadn’t heard that they were now gone.

I had heard it was in the works too, so had calmly assumed it had actually happened by now. Don't know for certain though. Others no doubt know more.

 

[High Dyke]

Swinderby signal box. Current structure dates from 1895. It handles LNER Azumas under semaphore signals. The token EMR services to London St Pancras use Meridians as opposed to the new 810 units.

 

[notspy]

I believe Barton Hill on the Scarborough line has some old instruments even if the box building is only 90 years old, not sure on the exact age however. The line sees 802s and did see 68 Mk5a.