Trivia: Direct trains that aren't in themselves valid routes

[scouseyb123]

Hello there, I have discovered that the Sunday Only Southport to Chester direct services is not actually a valid route on a Southport to Chester ticket (and vice versa).

Are there any other anomalous services like that in operation throughout the rest of the country or is it a one off? Surely the guard wouldn't throw a passenger off if they were going all the way direct?

 

[yorkie]

It's a valid route on a through ticket when on a through train, of course, but I agree the route isn't permitted in any other circumstance.

There are numerous 'loop' services, though less these days than there were, perhaps for ticketing reasons!

I am confident commercial Guards would be aware of the through trains rule - it must surely be part of their training, and is a basic concept.

 

[northwichcat]

There is no Southport-Chester Route:Any Permitted fare any more. A few years back Merseyrail did a promotion one Sunday where all Merseyrail fares were capped at £2 for the day. This included Southport-Chester Route:Any Permitted and resulted in many people from Chester and Southport going to Manchester on Northern services for £2, so the Route:Any Permitted fare was withdrawn to prevent such an occurrence happening again.

 

[Searle]

Lincoln to Doncaster (and on to Adwick/Scunthorpe etc.) isn't valid via Sheffield. Would take an age as well x_x

 

[Tony2215]

Why advertise such trains if theyre invalid routes from the station? Surely this falls into the 'misleading advertising' category.

 

[Sacro]

Lincoln to Doncaster (and on to Adwick/Scunthorpe etc.) isn't valid via Sheffield. Would take an age as well x_x

Route "Any Permitted"? Why not?

 

[eastwestdivide]

Lincoln to Doncaster (and on to Adwick/Scunthorpe etc.) isn't valid via Sheffield. Would take an age as well x_x

Unless I've misinterpreted it, National Rail thinks otherwise - see attached, showing the same fare on the 48 minute direct service as the 2h07 via Sheffield service:

 

[tractakid]

I can't imagine this train follows a permitted route! (Not checked, though)

http://www.brtimes.com/#!train?uid=...board?stn=BHI&filt=RUE&date=20141218&show=dep

 

[Tracked]

Lincoln to Doncaster (and on to Adwick/Scunthorpe etc.) isn't valid via Sheffield. Would take an age as well x_x

I did it last weekend, 10:24 Doncaster-Lincoln avoiding Sheffield and came back via Sheffield, have done so since 2011 when going to the Christmas Market

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hello there, I have discovered that the Sunday Only Southport to Chester direct services is not actually a valid route on a Southport to Chester ticket (and vice versa).

Unless that ticket has a printed Route line suggesting otherwise, it *is* valid, however unlikely anyone would be to actually use it as travel via Liverpool would be far quicker. A direct train is ALWAYS Permitted on an Any Permitted ticket; the Routeing Guide is not of any relevance to that.

Edit: These tickets are routed Birkenhead therefore it is indeed not valid. Very sensible to do that rather than using some kind of hidden negative easement.

Neil

 

[Bullfield WEst]

A few years ago I traveled from Manchester Piccadilly to London Waterloo on Wales and Borders 158. Route was Crewe, Newport avoiding line, Bristol, Sailsbury and Basingstoke. The guard checked tickets around Wilmslow saying "change at Crewe", I said I'm going to Waterloo.... I just got a long look .

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few years ago I traveled from Manchester Piccadilly to London Waterloo on Wales and Borders 158. Route was Crewe, Newport avoiding line, Bristol, Sailsbury and Basingstoke. The guard checked tickets around Wilmslow saying "change at Crewe", I said I'm going to Waterloo.... I just got a long look .

Ridiculous though that one was, it was completely valid.

Neil

 

[thenorthern]

The cheapest Walsall to Wolverhampton ticket is marked NOT VIA BIRMNGHM which means its not valid on the direct Walsall to Wolverhampton via Birmingham New Street train.

As there is one Wolverhampton to Walsall via Willenhall train per week but no Walsall to Wolverhampton via Willenhall train one can only assume that Wolverhampton to Walsall Not Via Birmingham tickets are valid travelling via Stafford as that is the shortest route although London Midland would probably say no.

 

[Starmill]

The cheapest Walsall to Wolverhampton ticket is marked NOT VIA BIRMNGHM which means its not valid on the direct Walsall to Wolverhampton via Birmingham New Street train.

As there is one Wolverhampton to Walsall via Willenhall train per week but no Walsall to Wolverhampton via Willenhall train one can only assume that Wolverhampton to Walsall Not Via Birmingham tickets are valid travelling via Stafford as that is the shortest route although London Midland would probably say no.

To me, the continued existence of the fare implies that they want you to go via Rugeley with that ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ridiculous though that one was, it was completely valid.

Neil

Indeed. There are still Warmster-Salsbry routed tickets from Shrewsbury to London!

 

[tractakid]

Indeed. There are still Warmster-Salsbry routed tickets from Shrewsbury to London!

I am hugely failing to understand why this would ever have been a route to take...

 

[Bletchleyite]

To me, the continued existence of the fare implies that they want you to go via Rugeley with that ticket.

Or they forgot to remove it.

Neil

 

[alexl92]

This confuses me. Why would a ticket not be valid on a direct train? I don't know much about ticket restrictions, so in newbie language could someone explain?

 

[higthomas]

This confuses me. Why would a ticket not be valid on a direct train? I don't know much about ticket restrictions, so in newbie language could someone explain?

Any ticket from A to B is valid on any and every train that is advertised as going from A to B. The question seems to be asking about direct trains that travel along a route that would not be valid if the train was not advertised as a through service.

An example would be this train. Normally a ticket from Wandsworth Town to Clapham Junction would not be valid via Kingston, but since this train is advertised as a through train between those two stations, a Wandsworth Town to Clapham Junction ticket would be valid on it between those two stations.

 

[158756]

Any ticket from A to B is valid on any and every train that is advertised as going from A to B. The question seems to be asking about direct trains that travel along a route that would not be valid if the train was not advertised as a through service.

An example would be this train. Normally a ticket from Wandsworth Town to Clapham Junction would not be valid via Kingston, but since this train is advertised as a through train between those two stations, a Wandsworth Town to Clapham Junction ticket would be valid on it between those two stations.

A ticket marked Route: Any Permitted, is valid on any through train (unless an easement specifically prevents it). However, some flows, such as Chester to Southport, don't have an any permitted fare, so whilst there are direct trains on Sunday via Manchester, tickets from Chester to Southport are not valid on them as they are all marked Route: via Birkenhead.

 

[Monkeymagic]

I can't imagine this train follows a permitted route! (Not checked, though)

http://www.brtimes.com/#!train?uid=...board?stn=BHI&filt=RUE&date=20141218&show=dep

Jesus, lol.

At least you'll be getting your moneys worth!

The old South West Trains (one a day I think) Bristol to London Waterloo train was pretty mental too.

Forget exactly where it went, but it went to Bath, then down to the south coast (Portsmouth I think), then east along the south coast (to Brighton maybe? I forget now), then up to London Waterloo.
It's a 2car DMU when it leaves BTM too...

 

[Muzer]

Wait, what? Are you sure you're not conflating two services there? I'd be surprised if it was advertised as one service that whole way, but feel free to prove me wrong.

There are a handful of Bristol to Waterloo trains per day, but they take the infinitely more sensible route of Bristol-Bath-Westbury-Warminster-Salisbury-Andover-Basingstoke-normal route to Waterloo