Trivia: Direct train is slower

[roversfan2001]

The 0619 and 1621 Blackpool North to Blackburn (arriving at 0908 and 1912 respectively) are easily overtaken by the 0711 and 1656 Blackpool North to York trains (arriving at 0754 (74 minutes quicker) and 1752 (80 minutes quicker) respectively); as the BPN-BBN trains run via Manchester Victoria, while the BPN-YRK trains run direct via Lostock Hall.

This also applies to Poulton-le-Fylde and Preston.

 

[robbeech]

It used to be the case that Peterborough to Sheffield was more than an hour faster via the ECML changing at Doncaster compared to the direct train via Leicester. So travelling between e.g. Manchester and Cambridge, you could get on a direct train, change at Sheffield and Doncaster, and complete your journey on the previous the direct train that left an hour before the one you started on.

Fewer ECML trains stop at Peterborough now though, so I'm not sure if it's still possible.

It is generally still faster to go up the ECML to Doncaster and get the next service to Sheffield. If this is a Northern service it might only save you 10 to 15 minutes but can be 35 minutes quicker with the right connections. Some make better connections to change at Retford and go across via Worksop. It's not the 'more than an hour' you say it used to be but it is still quicker.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The 0619 and 1621 Blackpool North to Blackburn (arriving at 0908 and 1912 respectively) are easily overtaken by the 0711 and 1656 Blackpool North to York trains (arriving at 0754 (74 minutes quicker) and 1752 (80 minutes quicker) respectively); as the BPN-BBN trains run via Manchester Victoria, while the BPN-YRK trains run direct via Lostock Hall.

Speaking of Blackburn, it's actually quicker to walk to Darwen than catch the 1720 service, since the train runs via Rochdale and Manchester! Of course I doubt you'd get away with a Blackburn to Darwen single ticket on it, but it still counts

 

[roversfan2001]

Speaking of Blackburn, it's actually quicker to walk to Darwen than catch the 1720 service, since the train runs via Rochdale and Manchester! Of course I doubt you'd get away with a Blackburn to Darwen single ticket on it, but it still counts [emoji38]

A Blackburn to Darwen single is still technically valid on that train though.

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[MidnightFlyer]

A Blackburn to Darwen single is still technically valid on that train though.

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Indeed, I'd just expect a bit of questioning from the Guard!

Looking at the via Rochdale services again, I reckon you could take the 1520 from Blackburn to Accrington, walk to Whalley and comfortably pick up the same service to Clitheroe. That might be one to do when I've run out of other plans

 

[bb21]

From a quick look at NRE, the journey is faster but you end up changing onto the same train at York.

The direct service doesn't go via York.

 

[Failed Unit]

Lincoln - London is quicker by changing at Newark than direct, but you wouldn't overtake anyone one.

However Lincoln - Peterborough you would.

 

[crispy1978]

Not checked, but I bet Scarborough to St Pancras would be a contender.

Had opportunity to check - this is a Saturday service.

STP 0637
SCA 1108

or...........

STP 0714 (walk to.....)
KGX 0715
YRK 0932
YRK 0940
SCA 1029

So - yes, definitely quicker by the non-direct service!

 

[Ianno87]

A Blackburn to Darwen single is still technically valid on that train though.

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I'd be interested to know how it is advertised on the departure board at Blackburn. Does anyone know?

 

[Clansman]

1A69 Glasgow QS to Inverness. Quicker changing at Perth and getting the one which goes direct via the Highland Mainline (as opposed to via Aberdeen) 40 odd minutes later. Saves you around 2 hours.

 

[roversfan2001]

I'd be interested to know how it is advertised on the departure board at Blackburn. Does anyone know?

Personally I don't know, but it's possibly advertised to "Victoria (via Todmorden)".

 

[najaB]

The direct service doesn't go via York.

Hmm... okay. I assumed it was the same train as the arrival time is the same x:20.

 

[JamesRowden]

Richmond - West Ham overtaken by route via Waterloo

 

[Kite159]

Probably the direct XC Reading - York is beaten by going via Paddington and Kings Cross, especially with the padding on route for the XC.

 

[JamesRowden]

London Victoria - Ashford International overtaken by route via London St Pancras International.
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Blackfriars - Sevenoaks overtaken by route involving walking to Waterloo East.
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Reading - London Waterloo overtaken by route via Paddington.
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Ealing Broadway - West Ham overtaken by route via Central line to Mile End

 

[tbtc]

Scarborough to Sheffield Direct via Hull is likely slower than changing at York.

From a quick look at NRE, the journey is faster but you end up changing onto the same train at York.

The direct service doesn't go via York.

Hmm... okay. I assumed it was the same train as the arrival time is the same x:20.

The direct service is the Northern one via Hull due to leave Doncaster at xx:48 via Meadowhall at xx:10 and arrive at Sheffield at xx:17 (WTT) or xx:20 (GBTT).

The connecting route means getting TPE to York then XC from York to Sheffield via Doncaster at xx:59. This service passes Meadowhall non-stop at xx:15 and arrive in Sheffield at xx:20 (WTT and GBTT).

Since neither service runs via Rotherham Central (taking the direct route non-stop via Masbrough), there's no overtaking so the Northern service ought to be arriving at Sheffield before the XC one, unless it's ten minutes late at Doncaster (in which case XC may get the nod).

The direct link from Bridlington/ Beverley to Meadowhall/ Sheffield may well be withdrawn under the new franchise, as the maps show a "Hull - Sheffield - Chesterfield" service, with no mention that I've seen of the East Yorkshire coast retaining its current link to Meadowhall/ Sheffield (Scarborough has a token direct service to Sheffield provided by EMT, before anyone gets picky).

(the tl;dr version is that the Doncaster - Sheffield "fast" services are badly scheduled over the twenty mile distance and two services arrive in Sheffield within a couple of minutes)

 

[Zamracene749]

Carlisle to Carnforth- 3 and a half hours direct, 1 hour 15 by changing at Lancaster. Even Barrow is faster (but double the fare) using the WCML.

 

[Dai Corner]

The 0556 Shrewsbury to Cardiff Central via the Heart of Wales line arrives at 11.06, but waiting until 8.40 you can catch the 0730 Machester Piccadilly to Carmarthen via Hereford and arrive Cardiff Central at 1039.

The trains will pass each other going in opposite directions somewhere around Miskin.

 

[abn444]

There are the xx39 Poole stopping trains from Waterloo that get overtaken by both the later xx05 and xx35 trains going to Weymouth. Going all the way to Poole for example getting the next xx35 train (nearly 1 hour later) would still get you to Poole 18 minutes faster.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The 0556 Shrewsbury to Cardiff Central via the Heart of Wales line arrives at 11.06, but waiting until 8.40 you can catch the 0730 Machester Piccadilly to Carmarthen via Hereford and arrive Cardiff Central at 1039.

The trains will pass each other going in opposite directions somewhere around Miskin.

That must surely be the winner.

I'd still get the HoWL train though!

 

[Dai Corner]

It's on occasion been possible to do Hereford<->Paddington via Newport in less time than on the direct route via Worcester/Oxford. I'm not aware of any such instances in the current timetable but there are certainly some that run it close. For example, the 19.22 direct from Paddington gets into Hereford at 22.55; or you can get the 20.15, change at Newport, and arrive just 11 minutes later (23.06).

This was more common when the HSTs were first introduced and there were non-stop runs between Paddington and Bristol Parkway (and even Newport?). I think connections via Newport were shown in the Cotswold Line timetable where these were quicker

 

[racklam]

Bradford Interchange to King's Cross. The direct Grand Central is slower than going to Leeds and changing onto VTEC.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already as I haven't got time to read through four pages but the daily Cardiff to Manchester XC service via Bristol is slower than GWR. At Bristol Parkway, the XC service (1V65) departs at 1957, arriving at Cardiff at 2105. But the 2008 GWR service (1B79), which sneaks behind along to Patchway as the Voyager reverses via Filton and Temple Meads, is then in front of the XC and gets into Cardiff at 2048.

Same in the morning. The XC leaves Cardiff at 0700, then the 0725 runs behind it where it is then ten minutes in front of the XC at Bristol Parkway whilst it has reversed at Temple Meads.

I regularly get the evening Voyager from Bristol (although at the moment I feel a bit lost with the Severn Tunnel closure), as Advances are £1.80!! Also, Voyagers are rare in Cardiff.

 

[infobleep]

If you are going from Epsom to Victoria, you can let the xx.04 go and get the xx.12; the former is all shacks via West Croydon. The latter not only takes the more direct route via Mitcham but is also non-stop between Sutton and Clapham Junction.

There are whisperings, however, that from 2018 the xx.04 will run to London Bridge instead of Victoria, which would spoil the game a bit although it would make a lot of sense as it would restore a regular off peak service to London Bridge - but that's a matter for another thread.

I take it, it's still faster even in the evening when the train never runs fast between Sutton and Clapham Junction?

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[61653 HTAFC]

If the connections worked better, Huddersfield to Sheffield could be trimmed a fair bit going via Leeds on TPE and XC, though at a higher fare. As it is, you can save 1 minute changing in Wakefield for the standard fare!

 

[greaterwest]

From Woking there are 3 Portsmouth trains to choose from.
The xx:13 Portsmouth via Guildford gets overtaken by the xx:25 Portsmouth via Guildford at Haslemere. The xx:35 is slower than both of these, as well as the xx:55 fast via Guildford.

In the peaks, the xx:35 Portsmouth via Basingstoke beats the (additional) xx:43 Portsmouth via Guildford stopper by about 8 minutes, however both are beaten by the xx:55 Portsmouth via Guildford fast (another 8 or so minutes before the stopper)

 

[Kite159]

From Woking there are 3 Portsmouth trains to choose from.
The xx:13 Portsmouth via Guildford gets overtaken by the xx:25 Portsmouth via Guildford at Haslemere. The xx:35 is slower than both of these, as well as the xx:55 fast via Guildford.

In the peaks, the xx:35 Portsmouth via Basingstoke beats the (additional) xx:43 Portsmouth via Guildford stopper by about 8 minutes, however both are beaten by the xx:55 Portsmouth via Guildford fast (another 8 or so minutes before the stopper)

Although all those are direct trains so don't really count for this thread.

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Southampton to London Victoria is a lot quicker going via SWT to Clapham and changing to a Victoria service, rather than going on the direct Southern service

 

[ChathillMan]

Sunday 1100 Newcastle to Middlesbrough takes 22 minutes longer than getting the 1100 to Darlington and changing there.

Most other times it quicker to change at Darlo, but rarely overtake the direct service

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[backontrack]

Services from Margate/Ramsgate/Canterbury to Charing Cross would probably be overtaken by HS1.

 

[Class 170101]

How about 18:00 Liverpool Street to Braintree?

Getting the 18:12 Liverpool Street to Clacton and change at Witham means you can leave 12 minutes later and(in theory) arrive the same time.

Or
07:15 Harwich International to Liverpool Street (arr 08:54)
instead
07:21 Harwich International to Liverpool Street (arr 08:42) changing at Manningtree.