Trivia: Direct train is slower

[najaB]

Quite likely done already, but can't search at the moment.

It was mentioned on the Aberdeen to Penzance thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=136559 that it would be faster to get the following VTEC service to London and gWr to Penzance.

Any other good examples of where the timetable allows you let the direct train go, catch a later train or trains and beat the first one to the destination? What's the biggest time saving to be had?

So this isn't just when there's a shorter route, but where the timetable makes it possible.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The majoritty of the XX51 departures from Edinburgh to Euston are overtaken on their way to London due to the route via BHM. Pax from EDB and HyM can change at CRE for the X Liverpool service for around a 45 mins earlier arrival.

 

[najaB]

The majoritty of the XX51 departures from Edinburgh to Euston are overtaken on their way to London due to the route via BHM. Pax from EDB and HyM can change at CRE for the X Liverpool service for around a 45 mins earlier arrival.

Nice, but that wouldn't count - I'm more interested in cases where you stay on the platform at your starting station, and beat a friend who gets the earlier train.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nice, but that wouldn't count - I'm more interested in cases where you stay on the platform at your starting station, and beat a friend who gets the earlier train.

Well, any station on the WCML between Carlisle and Warrington then.
The direct train is 45 minutes quicker.

I think all the XC services from Scotland to Birmingham (via York) are slower than the direct route via Preston.
For south of Birmingham (eg Aberdeen-Penzance), you can change twice and be on an earlier XC service from Birmingham.

North Wales/Chester-Birmingham is slower on the through service via Shrewsbury than the shorter route via Stafford (usually involving a change at Crewe).
Usually 30 minutes quicker, and more frequent too to some destinations.

 

[Richard_B]

It will sometimes be faster to get from Exeter St David's to Waterloo by waiting for the GWR service to Paddington and then tube, but you would have to be fairly sharpish around the underground and usually the saving will be 5 mins max. An exception this is letting the 11:25 SWT service go, and getting the 11:39 to Paddington which runs non-stop to reading, would give you an hour and 5 mins to get to Waterloo. You do have to walk across the bridge to a different platform at the start, but same station

Edit: also Penzance to Tiverton, Taunton, Bristol tM or Parkway. the 0600 5.5 hour marathon on a sprinter can be dodged by waiting for the XC voyager half an hour behind it, the Sprinter waits for 10 mins in Exeter to be overtaken.

 

[causton]

Nice, but that wouldn't count - I'm more interested in cases where you stay on the platform at your starting station, and beat a friend who gets the earlier train.

Then get the 0652 EDB - EUS, and your friend stays on the platform and gets the 0730 EDB - KGX (both booked platform 8) and they arrive at Kings Cross 1151 and you arrive Euston 1234

 

[northwichcat]

The LM Euston to Crewe services get overtaken by faster VT services.

I think there's also examples from North West stations where it's quicker to go to the South West via London than direct on XC and the same can apply for travelling to Norwich as well.

The 17:19 ATW Piccadilly to Chester service gets to Chester before the 17:09 Northern Piccadilly to Chester service and I'm sure they'll be many more examples once the Chester enhancements happen at the end of next year.

 

[Richard_B]

I think there's also examples from North West stations where it's quicker to go to the South West via London than direct on XC and the same can apply for travelling to Norwich as well.

Norwich to Liverpool via London, the Virgin service arrives 6 mins earlier according to RTT. The direct service has 5(!) mins of padding at the end

 

[Taunton]

From many outer suburban London stations, such as Woking or Slough, it is possible to let go the next train advertised as to London, and wait for a later one that overtakes it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

With padding of the arrival times of long-distance services, journey planners will tell you (eg) to change at Stockport for a local service, arriving in Manchester a minute or two earlier than if you had stayed on the through train!

Every hour at Wolverhampton, the VT Scotland-Euston has 12 minutes dwell time, enough for it to be overtaken by the following XC service (and thereby quicker to New St, International and Coventry).

 

[class387]

From many outer suburban London stations, such as Woking or Slough, it is possible to let go the next train advertised as to London, and wait for a later one that overtakes it.

Most off peak trains from St Albans to Sutton get overtaken by the next train to Three Bridges or Brighton before reaching London.

 

[aar0]

Guildford to Newcastle, XC have a direct train that can be beaten easily by SWT to Waterloo, then VTEC.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

LM Euston to Crewe is the first thing I thought of because it takes a tour of the potteries before reaching Crewe. You can get off at Stafford, jump on the next Liverpool bound train and be in Crewe 15-20 minutes before the direct one would have got you there.

Southbound you can let the direct service leave and get anything to Stafford up to 20 minutes later (again this is likely to be a LM Liverpool-Birmingham service) and pick up London train you 'missed' in Crewe.

 

[DasLunatic]

Starting at Brentwood, it's often quicker to double back at Shenfield and board an express service than it is to stay on the 315 to Stratford or Liverpool Street. The same is true of Maryland and Shenfield.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If you are going from Epsom to Victoria, you can let the xx.04 go and get the xx.12; the former is all shacks via West Croydon. The latter not only takes the more direct route via Mitcham but is also non-stop between Sutton and Clapham Junction.

There are whisperings, however, that from 2018 the xx.04 will run to London Bridge instead of Victoria, which would spoil the game a bit although it would make a lot of sense as it would restore a regular off peak service to London Bridge - but that's a matter for another thread.

 

[najaB]

Starting at Brentwood, it's often quicker to double back at Shenfield and board an express service than it is to stay on the 315 to Stratford or Liverpool Street. The same is true of Maryland and Shenfield.

That's true, and I've done it a few times myself. But that's not *quite* what I was thinking of as in either case you end up travelling the same route, just one train stops more than the other.

 

[endecotp]

It used to be the case that Peterborough to Sheffield was more than an hour faster via the ECML changing at Doncaster compared to the direct train via Leicester. So travelling between e.g. Manchester and Cambridge, you could get on a direct train, change at Sheffield and Doncaster, and complete your journey on the previous the direct train that left an hour before the one you started on.

Fewer ECML trains stop at Peterborough now though, so I'm not sure if it's still possible.

 

[nickdavies]

Norwood Junction - Victoria ... almost always quicker changing at ECR than via the Palace.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

It's on occasion been possible to do Hereford<->Paddington via Newport in less time than on the direct route via Worcester/Oxford. I'm not aware of any such instances in the current timetable but there are certainly some that run it close. For example, the 19.22 direct from Paddington gets into Hereford at 22.55; or you can get the 20.15, change at Newport, and arrive just 11 minutes later (23.06).

 

[MarlowDonkey]

There's a through HST from Paddington to Paignton which takes the route through Bristol, stopping at numerous stations. The following HST a few minutes later goes via Newbury stopping only at Exeter and gets to Newton Abbott with getting on for an hour in hand.

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/RDG/NTA/tomorrow/1030/dep

and for Paignton

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/RDG/PGN/tomorrow/1030/dep

 

[crispy1978]

Not checked, but I bet Scarborough to St Pancras would be a contender.

 

[Crossover]

Stafford to Crewe - the two options being direct or direct via Stone...I have previously photted a unit departing Crewe on the via Stone service, taken the more direct route and photted the same unit arriving at Stafford from Stone
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There's a through HST from Paddington to Paignton which takes the route through Bristol, stopping at numerous stations. The following HST a few minutes later goes via Newbury stopping only at Exeter and gets to Newton Abbott with getting on for an hour in hand.

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/RDG/NTA/tomorrow/1030/dep

and for Paignton

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/RDG/PGN/tomorrow/1030/dep

This has reminded me that when I was in Devon, I hopped off the ex Paignton train at Newton Abbot, caught the HST behind and arrived at Exeter with about 5 minutes or so to wait before getting back on the same unit to Exmouth (overtook at Dawlish Warren)

 

[Mojo]

lf you're going from Birmingham to Stansted Airport, you will arrive earlier if you wait an extra 8 Min and get the xx30 Virgin service to Euston, then LU and then the Stansted Express train, than to get the xx22 CrossCountry direct train.

 

[D6975]

There's a Bristol-Padd and return equivalent that run via the Avon valley. Catching the following via Didcot service gets you to your destination quicker in both directions.

 

[NSE]

lf you're going from Birmingham to Stansted Airport, you will arrive earlier if you wait an extra 8 Min and get the xx30 Virgin service to Euston, then LU and then the Stansted Express train, than to get the xx22 CrossCountry direct train.

It used to be the same for Cambridge but by two minutes. If you let the XX:00 to Birmingham go, you'd get there two minutes quicker by getting the XX:15 to London and then going via Euston. It may not be the same now as it got retimed to be at XX:01 so it may have gained those two minutes up. Either way, I prefer going that way to Brum from Cambridge as theres far more trains should one be cancelled.

 

[tbtc]

Doncaster to Retford is significantly faster via the ECML (13m) than the direct Northern service every hour via Sheffield (1h 30m).

So even if the OP is looking for examples where the faster journey isn't a direct one (but both are by different routes) then there are cases where the "via ECML" route is significantly faster than the "direct but via Sheffield" route - for example Scunthorpe to Retford is often about 50m via the ECML but about 2h 5m on the direct route via Sheffield.

(it's a slight cheat, perhaps, as there's generally only a direct Scunthorpe *to* Retford service - the return journey works back to Adwick instead of Scunny)

It used to be the case, before Operation Princess, that Sheffield to Leeds was faster via Doncaster at some times of the day (given the big gaps in the Cross Country service from Sheffield to Leeds in BR days), which I guess is why the more expensive "via Doncaster" fare exists.

(sorry if I've misunderstood the OP though)

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Norwich line stations to Liverpool is quicker changing at Peterborough and Leeds, especially as the TPE service now runs via MCV and chat moss whereas the direct service has numerous university city stations en route and runs cheshire lines to liverpool from Man Picc

 

[Ianno87]

LM Euston to Crewe is the first thing I thought of because it takes a tour of the potteries before reaching Crewe. You can get off at Stafford, jump on the next Liverpool bound train and be in Crewe 15-20 minutes before the direct one would have got you there.

Southbound you can let the direct service leave and get anything to Stafford up to 20 minutes later (again this is likely to be a LM Liverpool-Birmingham service) and pick up London train you 'missed' in Crewe.

Also true for LM Euston-Northampton-Birmingham services. Euston to Tile Hill (for example) can be done quicker with a change at Coventry, onto a slower LM train that has come from Euston.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Scarborough to Sheffield Direct via Hull is likely slower than changing at York.

 

[najaB]

Scarborough to Sheffield Direct via Hull is likely slower than changing at York.

From a quick look at NRE, the journey is faster but you end up changing onto the same train at York.