Trivia - Bus Stop Oddities

[CBlue]

It's a shame I never managed to get a photo of it, but some of my local bus shelters around Basingstoke where clearly on their "second homes", a number of which had come up from Portsmouth and Brighton areas. One even came with a local First Bus map and advertising for Portsmouth & The Solent, which er, rather stood out in a fully Stagecoach operated town. What was equally brilliant, was that shortly after it's installation, the only service operating past it was re-routed and it ended up having no service at all.

I believe it now is a Sunday Service stop but otherwise has been de-branded.

Had similar here. The bus shelters in my village all had TfL posters in for various stops around East London!

 

[alex397]

Not sure on the laws but it's a Stagecoach rule apparently to not reverse without a banksperson except in DIRO bus station or where you have to as part of the route (normally tenders, I don't think Stagecoach do any reversing into side streets commercially)

I'm sure it's similar at the other big companies. It's a rule which is there to protect the company so if you reverse and hit something, they can say they told you not to and put more blame on the driver. It isn't actively enforced.

While some companies and subsidiaries may have this as a rule, It generally seems to be a common myth that buses are not allowed to reverse. There are countless examples where buses have to reverse while operating in service. For example with Stagecoach South East the 1/1A/1X at Chilham as mentioned above, and the 11 (Canterbury - Westwood) which has to reverse to turn around in the village of Wickhambreux. South East operate many others which have to do this.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

While some companies and subsidiaries may have this as a rule, It generally seems to be a common myth that buses are not allowed to reverse. There are countless examples where buses have to reverse while operating in service. For example with Stagecoach South East the 1/1A/1X at Chilham as mentioned above, and the 11 (Canterbury - Westwood) which has to reverse to turn around in the village of Wickhambreux. South East operate many others which have to do this.

Discussed in posts #8 and 10 - the urban myth.

I'm sure I've been on Stagecoach vehicles that have reversing points en route and definitely been on First ones

 

[Cricketer8for9]

I’ve heard it from drivers moving to Cornwall from places like London, they seem shocked at any of the above places I mentioned in previous post and question the practice.
Meeting another bus on routes like the A5 here in Cornwall if we weren’t allowed to reverse we’d sit there forever more. I was taught only reverse if it’s the best option, me reversing 1/2 a bus length or a car driver reversing 1/2 mile which is the better option? As a professional driver I know how to and was trained to reverse safely, having seen some car drivers reverse I dread to think where they got their licence! I once encountered a car driver who whilst trying to reverse for me, he hit the Cornish stone hedge 4 times in his fairly new jaguar.
I wouldn’t even consider a reverse though for a car if the car only had a short distance to reverse !

Though I doubt you’d have to jump starting a manual bus in reverse down a flyover ramp which happened to me earlier this year in Colombia. About a 30 seater. Conductor got the other vehicles out of the way.

 

[David Burrows]

Borders Buses service 464, Wooler to Berwich-upon-Tweed reverses twice en route, in Lowick and Bowesden.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Borders Buses service 464, Wooler to Berwich-upon-Tweed reverses twice en route, in Lowick and Bowesden.

Has done for years such as in United and Northumbria days

 

[DunsBus]

Interesting to know. I’ve seen it sat at the terminus a few times but didn’t realise it reversed into there.

That bit of road at Mayfield which the 3 reverses into wasn't originally meant to have been a terminus, as the plan was for the scheme to be extended into the adjacent field. However, the farmer who owned it had other ideas and refused to sell it to the council. The field remains undeveloped to this day.

If anything, the terminus at least makes good use of a dead-end.

 

[markymark2000]

While some companies and subsidiaries may have this as a rule, It generally seems to be a common myth that buses are not allowed to reverse. There are countless examples where buses have to reverse while operating in service. For example with Stagecoach South East the 1/1A/1X at Chilham as mentioned above, and the 11 (Canterbury - Westwood) which has to reverse to turn around in the village of Wickhambreux. South East operate many others which have to do this.

Legally, it's allowed. Company rules generally state no reversing without bankperson except DIRO bus stations and routes where it has to be done (commonly tenders but a few commercial examples are there). As I said further up, it's to cover the company. If something happened as a result of randomly reversing, they can put it on the driver.

 

[Pat1105]

Legally, it's allowed. Company rules generally state no reversing without bankperson except DIRO bus stations and routes where it has to be done (commonly tenders but a few commercial examples are there). As I said further up, it's to cover the company. If something happened as a result of randomly reversing, they can put it on the driver.

And because bus stations are controlled areas, you can reverse without a banksman.

 

[carlberry]

And because bus stations are controlled areas, you can reverse without a banksman.

Several employ banksman anyway (despite how boring/dangerous the job is!) Banbury and Swansea are two that I can think of. The one in Swansea is often distracted by herding numpties out of the bus station.

 

[Pat1105]

Several employ banksman anyway (despite how boring/dangerous the job is!) Banbury and Swansea are two that I can think of. The one in Swansea is often distracted by herding numpties out of the bus station.

Aberdeen have them as well. Not a job I’d fancy, standing out in the cold all day during the winter - especially in Aberdeen! Elgin used to have one, but I think he retired and they never replaced him. I think banksmen in bus stations are starting to die out now, especially as new buses have reversing cameras on them.

 

[carlberry]

Aberdeen have them as well. Not a job I’d fancy, standing out in the cold all day during the winter - especially in Aberdeen! Elgin used to have one, but I think he retired and they never replaced him. I think banksmen in bus stations are starting to die out now, especially as new buses have reversing cameras on them.

I'm only a pretend bus driver (just preserved vehicles) however I'm never happy reversing without I know the area is completly clear. Dispite how unpopular they are with photographers I'm always happier with somebody in a hi-vis vest watching where my back end is going! (Insert your favorite 1970s joke here).

 

[Pat1105]

I'm only a pretend bus driver (just preserved vehicles) however I'm never happy reversing without I know the area is completly clear. Dispite how unpopular they are with photographers I'm always happier with somebody in a hi-vis vest watching where my back end is going! (Insert your favorite 1970s joke here).

At the end of the day, safety is the number one priority. I’d be the same as you, just to be on the safe side.

 

[leedslad82]

Several employ banksman anyway (despite how boring/dangerous the job is!) Banbury and Swansea are two that I can think of. The one in Swansea is often distracted by herding numpties out of the bus station.

Otley bus station has in the last few years had a banksman. Not sure why they suddenly employed one. Think he is employed by first bus

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Several employ banksman anyway (despite how boring/dangerous the job is!) Banbury and Swansea are two that I can think of. The one in Swansea is often distracted by herding numpties out of the bus station.

I think Banbury has one because it has stands at 90 degrees to the road and to each other, rather than “en eschelon” or saw tooth. Such designs are always fraught with reversing incidents - Oxford and the old Gloucester had similar issues. Think Oxford has a banksman but it’s compounded by being too small a site.

 

[M60lad]

Dont think it still does but for a time Newcastle-Under-Lyme Bus Station used to have a Banksman watching the buses reverse.

On some of the stands in Hanley Bus Station they have a traffic light system that works in a sort of haphazard way to tell drivers when its safe to reverse of the stand.

 

[Simon75]

Dont think it still does but for a time Newcastle-Under-Lyme Bus Station used to have a Banksman watching the buses reverse.

On some of the stands in Hanley Bus Station they have a traffic light system that works in a sort of haphazard way to tell drivers when its safe to reverse of the stand.

They no longer have a banks man, haven't for a few years now

 

[Man of Kent]

I think Banbury has one because it has stands at 90 degrees to the road and to each other, rather than “en eschelon” or saw tooth. Such designs are always fraught with reversing incidents - Oxford and the old Gloucester had similar issues. Think Oxford has a banksman but it’s compounded by being too small a site.

Banbury also has HGVs wandering through, delivering to the adjacent shopping centre.

 

[SeveerYeliab]

In many areas, drivers are instructed via duty cards to wait for the bus coming from the other direction. I've never had any problem with this, but how long would the driver have to wait for the other bus to come. I imagine after a certain time a call to the depot would be required? East Kent 11A and 17 spring to mind.

 

[PG]

There was a time when companies actually planned where two buses would cross on a route, and such instructions were to 'remind' drivers to look out for the bus coming from the opposite direction in case it was running late.

Sadly knowledge seems to have been lost (as noted also on the railway) with lack of career progression, leading to instances where on-time services will meet head-on in unsuitable locations. Most professional drivers are aware of these situations and often depots will have informal agreements over which driver will hang-back to avoid two buses meeting in an awkward place.

 

[PeterC]

There was a time when companies actually planned where two buses would cross on a route, and such instructions were to 'remind' drivers to look out for the bus coming from the opposite direction in case it was running late.

Sadly knowledge seems to have been lost (as noted also on the railway) with lack of career progression, leading to instances where on-time services will meet head-on in unsuitable locations. Most professional drivers are aware of these situations and often depots will have informal agreements over which driver will hang-back to avoid two buses meeting in an awkward place.

Back in the early 70s I remember Crossville evening services planned so that either drivers swapped over and returned to their home depots or the passengers on both buses swapped and both turned round. These were always shown as through services in the timetable and on destination blinds.

 

[carlberry]

Back in the early 70s I remember Crossville evening services planned so that either drivers swapped over and returned to their home depots or the passengers on both buses swapped and both turned round. These were always shown as through services in the timetable and on destination blinds.

Drivers swapping over still happens a few longer distance services. The having to swap buses is an unfortunate consequence of company engineering policy (buses must be returned to their owning depot) overriding passenger convenience!

 

[TheSel]

Drivers swapping over still happens a few longer distance services. The having to swap buses is an unfortunate consequence of company engineering policy (buses must be returned to their owning depot) overriding passenger convenience!

[posted in error]

 

[TheSel]

Back in the early 70s I remember Crossville evening services planned so that either drivers swapped over and returned to their home depots or the passengers on both buses swapped and both turned round. These were always shown as through services in the timetable and on destination blinds.

And not just evening services. During the 1980s, the X52 Abersytwyth - Swansea was jointly worked by Crosville (from the north) and South Wales (er ... from the south, obviously!). The journeys met just outside Llandeilo, and the idea was that the vehicles would work through, and the drivers would exchange vehicles. Both depots were supposed to use Leopards, but occasionally Aberystwyth were a bit short of coaches, so a somewhat long-in-the-tooth RE coach substituted. South Wales would not accept this (I believe because the RE lacked power steering), so when the RE ran the service, each vehicle had to 'kiss and turn', and it was the passengers who had to change.





As an aside, (and when it DID work through!) the South Wales coach was then regularly used to work a lunchtime return on (Crosville) S12 to Ynyslas Turn / Searivers Caravan Site.



It's also of interest to note that the concept of crews changing vehicles was the subject on the 'General Manager's Trainee Examination' for September 1944 - as quoted in Appendix 4 of W J Crosland-Taylor's book 'State Owned Without Tears'. I'm not going to reproduce the whole thing here - although the original book is long out of print, there was a reprint by the Transport Publishing Company in October 1987 under ISBN 086317 139 7 for anyone who's desperately interested, but the salient points are that the trainee is to plan a half-hourly through service from Birkenhead to Llanberis, via Chester, Flint, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Caernarfon, and specifically that:

+ Bus crews must start and finish at their own Depots but may change from one bus to another at any Depot
+ Individual buses may start at one Depot and finish at another, but if X buses start at any Depot the same number of machines must finish at the depot

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

And not just evening services. During the 1980s, the X52 Abersytwyth - Swansea was jointly worked by Crosville (from the north) and South Wales (er ... from the south, obviously!). The journeys met just outside Llandeilo, and the idea was that the vehicles would work through, and the drivers would exchange vehicles. Both depots were supposed to use Leopards, but occasionally Aberystwyth were a bit short of coaches, so a somewhat long-in-the-tooth RE coach substituted. South Wales would not accept this (I believe because the RE lacked power steering), so when the RE ran the service, each vehicle had to 'kiss and turn', and it was the passengers who had to change.

View attachment 77616

View attachment 77614

As an aside, (and when it DID work through!) the South Wales coach was then regularly used to work a lunchtime return on (Crosville) S12 to Ynyslas Turn / Searivers Caravan Site.

View attachment 77615

It's also of interest to note that the concept of crews changing vehicles was the subject on the 'General Manager's Trainee Examination' for September 1944 - as quoted in Appendix 4 of W J Crosland-Taylor's book 'State Owned Without Tears'. I'm not going to reproduce the whole thing here - although the original book is long out of print, there was a reprint by the Transport Publishing Company in October 1987 under ISBN 086317 139 7 for anyone who's desperately interested, but the salient points are that the trainee is to plan a half-hourly through service from Birkenhead to Llanberis, via Chester, Flint, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Caernarfon, and specifically that:

+ Bus crews must start and finish at their own Depots but may change from one bus to another at any Depot
+ Individual buses may start at one Depot and finish at another, but if X buses start at any Depot the same number of machines must finish at the depot

I was aware of this arrangement; I think I saw a picture of one of the South Wales FCY-W Bedfords working a local service during the day. Again, those are superb photographs so thank you for sharing.


Sorry to go back to the United Auto services in Wensleydale (apologies). Both outbased vehicles would need to return to the parent depot for fuelling etc. Except when one vehicle would get fuelled at Ripon on market day, this was done by running a journey in the morning for one bus into Richmond returning back up to Hawes in the morning, then a lunchtime journey with the other vehicle, returning mid afternoon.

However, and I don't know why (union agreement on driving time in a shift, ensuring the interchange with other buses at Leyburn), but on a Saturday it was different. One bus would go to Ripon (127) as per Thursday. The other would run three journeys from Hawes to Richmond (26) but were timed to cross over and change drivers. The first two journeys were at Bellerby (an obscure village) and the last one at Leyburn (the main town in Wensleydale). Therefore, the Hawes driver didn't see Richmond on a Saturday but his bus did!

This shot shows the afternoon interchange and the two Service 26s with the RESL being returned back to Hawes outstation. https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncar...SN-dA8GcC-hscub9-gjTaNx-4hm5wg-bGM7Fx-dixMqM/

 

[carlberry]

This shot shows the afternoon interchange and the two Service 26s with the RESL being returned back to Hawes outstation. https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncar...SN-dA8GcC-hscub9-gjTaNx-4hm5wg-bGM7Fx-dixMqM/

Having read/heard of several driver's opinions of the LH compared with the RE, and especially the 'go faster' RESL version I can only imaging the thoughts of the drivers involved!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Having read/heard of several driver's opinions of the LH compared with the RE, and especially the 'go faster' RESL version I can only imaging the thoughts of the drivers involved!

That is undoubtedly the case but believe that whilst the RESL only had two more seats, you could squeeze more standing for the schools.

TBF, I liked both the RE and LH. I've been on a lot of them but readily accept that we have moved on some way in vehicle design

 

[Busaholic]

And not just evening services. During the 1980s, the X52 Abersytwyth - Swansea was jointly worked by Crosville (from the north) and South Wales (er ... from the south, obviously!). The journeys met just outside Llandeilo, and the idea was that the vehicles would work through, and the drivers would exchange vehicles. Both depots were supposed to use Leopards, but occasionally Aberystwyth were a bit short of coaches, so a somewhat long-in-the-tooth RE coach substituted. South Wales would not accept this (I believe because the RE lacked power steering), so when the RE ran the service, each vehicle had to 'kiss and turn', and it was the passengers who had to change.

View attachment 77616

View attachment 77614

As an aside, (and when it DID work through!) the South Wales coach was then regularly used to work a lunchtime return on (Crosville) S12 to Ynyslas Turn / Searivers Caravan Site.

View attachment 77615

It's also of interest to note that the concept of crews changing vehicles was the subject on the 'General Manager's Trainee Examination' for September 1944 - as quoted in Appendix 4 of W J Crosland-Taylor's book 'State Owned Without Tears'. I'm not going to reproduce the whole thing here - although the original book is long out of print, there was a reprint by the Transport Publishing Company in October 1987 under ISBN 086317 139 7 for anyone who's desperately interested, but the salient points are that the trainee is to plan a half-hourly through service from Birkenhead to Llanberis, via Chester, Flint, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Caernarfon, and specifically that:

+ Bus crews must start and finish at their own Depots but may change from one bus to another at any Depot
+ Individual buses may start at one Depot and finish at another, but if X buses start at any Depot the same number of machines must finish at the depot

I'm making a note of that ISBN and will look out for a reasonably-priced secondhand copy. Thanks. Just the sort of question which anyone planning on being the General Manager of a bus company should be able to answer in a way that was implementable.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another example of drivers changing but buses running through was, I think, the long United 128 service from Scarborough to Ripon via Pickering and Thirsk. Vehicles were supplied by Ripon and Pickering depots and ran throughout.

However, crews swapped at Helmsley. I think all buses got back to their home depots by the end of the day. https://www.flickr.com/photos/markh...jo3-a2siBo-8KgjTn-e4acdA-dAyxap-dixMqM-bCmnT7

That continued until 1981 when the Ripon to Helmsley portion was massively cut back to operate only on market days, becoming a separate service (138) but with advertised connections.

 

[Whisky Papa]

It's also of interest to note that the concept of crews changing vehicles was the subject on the 'General Manager's Trainee Examination' for September 1944 - as quoted in Appendix 4 of W J Crosland-Taylor's book 'State Owned Without Tears'. I'm not going to reproduce the whole thing here - although the original book is long out of print, there was a reprint by the Transport Publishing Company in October 1987 under ISBN 086317 139 7 for anyone who's desperately interested, but the salient points are that the trainee is to plan a half-hourly through service from Birkenhead to Llanberis, via Chester, Flint, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Caernarfon, and specifically that:

+ Bus crews must start and finish at their own Depots but may change from one bus to another at any Depot
+ Individual buses may start at one Depot and finish at another, but if X buses start at any Depot the same number of machines must finish at the depot

I seem to recall a former scheduling colleague of mine at GMT in the 1980s had been recruited by a local manager ouside the normal procedure, and had been given this task to complete as a major part of his selection. He admitted he was already aware of the exercise as he had read the book (possibly his father had a copy of the original at home) so had no problems completing it - actually, he was particularly gifted in the field, in my view.

I'm being a bit cheeky here, but would it be possible to list the running times used in the exercise and the service start and finish times required, then anybody stuck at home could have a crack at it? I assume a new thread would be appropriate if so.