Trivia and discussion: Lines with lopsided but regular timetables

[Purple Train]

For example: Birmingham Cross-City Line between Barnt Green and Four Oaks - trains alternate between 10- and 20-minute intervals
Hadfield/Glossop Line - 3tp2h but at 30-30-60 intervals
Any more examples?

 

[NSE]

A regular one I have for this is Whitton station. Trains to London at xx:20/23 then nothing until xx:50/53. Going the other way is xx:20/25 and xx:50/55. Happens as it’s the location where the fast picks up the stopper in front on its way out of London and is pathed just in front of a stopper ready for it run faster. Totally understand why it happens and it’s a very usable service, but the break is 27-3-27-3. It is 4tph but it’s really only 2tph in practice mind you, covid knocked out the 23/53 Hounslow Loopers so it’s not so lopsided now.

 

[AlbertBeale]

A regular one I have for this is Whitton station. Trains to London at xx:20/23 then nothing until xx:50/53. Going the other way is xx:20/25 and xx:50/55. Happens as it’s the location where the fast picks up the stopper in front on its way out of London and is pathed just in front of a stopper ready for it run faster. Totally understand why it happens and it’s a very usable service, but the break is 27-3-27-3. It is 4tph but it’s really only 2tph in practice mind you, covid knocked out the 23/53 Hounslow Loopers so it’s not so lopsided now.

From Hackbridge (and adjacent stations) into London there's a standard 4-26-4-26 pattern of gaps in the hour. Admittedly one pair is for Victoria, and the other pair is Thameslink, but for many people heading into town and not minding which initial terminal they reach (or indeed for people going just a couple of stops up the line before the routes diverge), this is effectively just a 2ph service, despite looking at first glance as though it's 4tph. And a genuine 4tph is probably the minimum for locals to perceive it as a turn-up-and-go service, and hence (for many of them) the current pattern is probably a deterrent to using the trains as their default method of travel.

 

[Basil Jet]

Hadfield/Glossop Line - 3tp2h but at 30-30-60 intervals

Actually its 4tp3h, at 30-60-30-60 intervals. I wonder why.

 

[Watershed]

Actually its 4tp3h, at 30-60-30-60 intervals. I wonder why.

Not really - it's just alternate 30 and 60 minute intervals.

It's because there are currently only 2 units in use on what would normally be a 3 unit cycle. The frequency is due to resume to full half hourly in December, but I'm not so confident that will actually materialise.

 

[NSE]

From Hackbridge (and adjacent stations) into London there's a standard 4-26-4-26 pattern of gaps in the hour. Admittedly one pair is for Victoria, and the other pair is Thameslink, but for many people heading into town and not minding which initial terminal they reach (or indeed for people going just a couple of stops up the line before the routes diverge), this is effectively just a 2ph service, despite looking at first glance as though it's 4tph. And a genuine 4tph is probably the minimum for locals to perceive it as a turn-up-and-go service, and hence (for many of them) the current pattern is probably a deterrent to using the trains as their default method of travel.

Yeah I’d agree. 15 minutes is your maximum between turn up and go and planning.

 

[Purple Train]

Not really - it's just alternate 30 and 60 minute intervals.

It's because there are currently only 2 units in use on what would normally be a 3 unit cycle. The frequency is due to resume to full half hourly in December, but I'm not so confident that will actually materialise.

Yes, it's basically the usual 2tph cycle with one diagram taken out, effectively meaning that, at stations between (I think) Flowery Field and Broadbottom, there are two trains to Piccadilly, then two to Hadfield, etc.
For all they're "trying" to do to encourage passengers back (yoga, mindfulness, Greggs, brilliant, sounds like a day out for all the family), the use of difficult-to-remember and awkward timetables like this can't do much to help matters.

A regular one I have for this is Whitton station. Trains to London at xx:20/23 then nothing until xx:50/53. Going the other way is xx:20/25 and xx:50/55. Happens as it’s the location where the fast picks up the stopper in front on its way out of London and is pathed just in front of a stopper ready for it run faster. Totally understand why it happens and it’s a very usable service, but the break is 27-3-27-3. It is 4tph but it’s really only 2tph in practice mind you, covid knocked out the 23/53 Hounslow Loopers so it’s not so lopsided now.

I recall seeing a cab ride video from some years ago that mentioned Hampden Park station near Eastbourne. Apparently, back then, it had 2tph, but at 4-56-4-56 intervals!

 

[swt_passenger]

Here’s an example from Southern we’ve discussed before.

Suppose you had a regular half hourly service from Brighton to Southampton, and a regular half hourly service from Victoria to Portsmouth. They combine to give a nice neat 15 minute service on the common route, let’s call it Barnham to Havant.

However, what passengers actually want is for all four journey options to be possible. The only practical way of doing this is to swap destinations over at one end of the overall route. Which is why the arrivals and departures at Southampton and Portsmouth become roughly 15/45 apart.

So in some cases, you either get a regular service, or better journey options, but not both.

 

[NSE]

A very good point. It’s something I’ve often wondered about Thameslink. I frequently travel between two nodes that don’t ever have direct services (Sutton Loop to ECML) and often wondered if they could mix and match destinations. But yeah, would always end up with lopsided timetables.

 

[Kite159]

St Denys to Southampton Central. 2tph but a minute apart heading towards Southampton.
Not much better the other way as those 2 trains are less than 10 minutes apart.

 

[robert thomas]

For example: Birmingham Cross-City Line between Barnt Green and Four Oaks - trains alternate between 10- and 20-minute intervals
Hadfield/Glossop Line - 3tp2h but at 30-30-60 intervals
Any more examples?

Cardiff to Swansea GWR and TpFW trains generally run 5-10 minutes apart with an hour before the next sequence

 

[JD2168]

Sheffield to Barnsley via Meadowhall service is a bit odd, you get the stopper to Leeds at :02 past the hour, then the Semi fast to Leeds at :18 past the hour, then the Huddersfield stopper at :35 past the hour with the next at :44 past the hour on the next semi fast to Leeds with no train until :02 past the hour again.

 

[NSE]

Sheffield to Barnsley via Meadowhall service is a bit odd, you get the stopper to Leeds at :02 past the hour, then the Semi fast to Leeds at :18 past the hour, then the Huddersfield stopper at :35 past the hour with the next at :44 past the hour on the next semi fast to Leeds with no train until :02 past the hour again.

That’s 16-17-9-18 between services. Not the worst. Not even, but certainly very useable.

 

[PGAT]

Wallington and other adjacent stations on the line.

The gap between up trains towards London is 5, 25, 5, 25

 

[Basil Jet]

Liverpool Street to Bethnal Green : alternating 3 and 12 minute gaps for much of the week. Admittedly 12 minutes is not a long time, so it's basically turn up and go, but I've never known why both trains call at Bethnal Green, rather than one skipping, as happens at Cambridge Heath and London Fields.

 

[Kite159]

Liverpool Street to Bethnal Green : alternating 3 and 12 minute gaps for much of the week. Admittedly 12 minutes is not a long time, so it's basically turn up and go, but I've never known why both trains call at Bethnal Green, rather than one skipping, as happens at Cambridge Heath and London Fields.

More a case of track layout I suspect where the Chingford trains bypass the platforms at Cambridge Heath & London Fields.

 

[D1537]

The BHM-Coventry corridor is weirdly lopsided.

For Hampton-in-Arden, Berkswell, Tile Hill and Canley the 2tph service towards Coventry has gaps of 17 and 43 mins - xx.28 and xx.45 from BHI. The service towards BHI is slightly better (gaps of 21 and 39).

Meanwhile, if you're at Marston Green wanting to go to New Street, you get 3tph, but they're at xx.33, xx.45 and xx.54 followed by that same 39 minute gap. And on Sundays, this goes back down to 2tph ... at xx.12 and xx.23, with a 49 minute gap.

 

[aliceh]

Pokesdown, being one stop out from a major station on a long-distance line, naturally gets the thin end of the wedge with timings. Towards Southampton, departures are :09 and :26 each hour (gaps of 17 then 43); towards Bournemouth it's :38 and :56 (gaps of 18 then 42)

Which gives the odd situation where trains stop fairly regularly (17-12-18-13) but two in one direction then two in the other.

 

[sk688]

Avanti's Milton Keynes - London services are pretty lopsided

 

[Revilo]

On weekdays, Gilfach Fargoed has a much better service toward Bargoed (every two hours AM and hourly in the afternoons) than towards Cardiff, when there is a gap of around 8 hours during the day. Though at least it’s no longer a request stop!

 

[Falcon1200]

Glasgow Central to Kilmarnock; Pre-Covid this was a fairly regular half-hourly interval service, but as one of the trains now doubles as a Glasgow-Barrhead all-stations local, the departures from Central are at xx13 and xx27, which is ludicrous. From Kilmarnock however the departures are still roughly every half hour, albeit one also stops at every lamp post en route.....

 

[mangyiscute]

one which is a very commonly used route is Reading to Oxford - heading northbound there is an xx:15 cross country and xx:19, xx:49 gwr service so its effectively half-hourly, then southbound its a bit better with xx:02, xx:32 gwr and xx:16 cross country (although often delayed), but this still leaves a half hour gap where the missing cross country service that ran pre covid should be. On Sundays its pretty much the same except the gwr trains call at didcot, meaning that the xx:19 mon-sat becomes the xx:14 on sundays and is actually overtaken by the cross country at xx:15

 

[JackTheLad]

St Mary Cray's Victoria services are 2 an hour but only 10 mins apart from each other, leaving a 50 minute gap. Highly frustrating when so many other Victoria services pass through fast which could be alternated to create a more even service

 

[507020]

Here’s an example from Southern we’ve discussed before.

Suppose you had a regular half hourly service from Brighton to Southampton, and a regular half hourly service from Victoria to Portsmouth. They combine to give a nice neat 15 minute service on the common route, let’s call it Barnham to Havant.

However, what passengers actually want is for all four journey options to be possible. The only practical way of doing this is to swap destinations over at one end of the overall route. Which is why the arrivals and departures at Southampton and Portsmouth become roughly 15/45 apart.

So in some cases, you either get a regular service, or better journey options, but not both.

In that example, the best journey options would be by changing trains at any station of your choice on the common section which has 4tph and a 15 minute wait, rather than the 45 minute wait if you miss a train that the other option gives you.

 

[Graham H]

Sometimes as a previous poster has said, service patterns are for the common good to allow interchange. From my station (Emsworth) trains head east at .13, .18, .49 and .58 past each hour so thats 4 trains in a 29 minute period and then nothing from .18 to.49. However as these come from Portsmouth or Southampton then you can see the short gaps are better for people wishing to change off one route and on to another. The stopper (.18) follows one of the faster services so allows a convenient interchange from a faster service into an all shacks one.
Similar scenario westbound with 4 trains in a 33 min period then a 27 min gap. Again for the common good but it does mean that it isnt a 'turn up and go' style that a clockface 15 min interval would provide. The only real issue is that we have two Southampton bound trains just 17 minutes apart as others have previously noted

 

[Tetchytyke]

Leeds to Shipley is a neat 15 minute frequency, without the addition of the hourly Morecambe/Carlisle.

Shipley to Leeds is 08, 15, 38, 45, without the Morecambe/Carlisle.

 

[Peter0124]

The North Clyde line timetable is pretty bad.
From Glasgow Queen Street trains towards Airdrie are 10/20 and towards Partick it's three departures within 11 minutes then nothing for 19.

 

[zwk500]

Wolverton used to (may still, not sure with all the timetable changes) have a fairly lopsided pattern. Southbounds the trains were at 20/40 minute intervals, but for a while northbound trains were at 5/55 minute intervals or thereabouts.

 

[Kite159]

Wolverton used to (may still, not sure with all the timetable changes) have a fairly lopsided pattern. Southbounds the trains were at 20/40 minute intervals, but for a while northbound trains were at 5/55 minute intervals or thereabouts.

It is still lopsided on a Sunday. 2 Southbound trains generally within 10 minutes, northbound generally gets a gap of 20 minutes