Trip to Portugal

[MarcVD]

Reviving this old topic because things are changed/getting more precise.
We had to change the dates of our trip for family reasons. And it will be one week only, with 2 more days to spare for a train trip, only for the returning leg.

I abandoned the idea to do it by classical train. It's feasable but logistics are going to be a nightmare. Leaving Porto for Vigo and the Vigo to Barcelona train
the next day forces me to pack 4 meals with me because the trains leave so early and arrive so late (like 7:00-22:00) so I ditched the idea.

So instead :

30/10/2025
Porto Campanha 10:45 IC 720 to Lisboa Appolonia
Change at Entroncamento 12:58 - 13:36 for R 485 to Bajadoz
Change at Bajadoz 17:26 - 17:48 for A 295 to Madrid Atocha 22:18
Overnight - 31/10/2025
Madrid Atocha 10:02 OGV 6501 to Barcelona Sants
Change at Barcelona Sants 13:04 - 16:25 for TGV 9706 to Paris Lyon -> Beziers 18:50
Overnight - 01/11/2025
Beziers 09:11 TGV 6871 to Lyon Part Dieu
Change at Lyon Part Dieu 11:48 - 14:00 for TGV 9866 to Bruxelles Midi 17:56

Any comments ? Timing ? Are connections in Entroncamento and Bajadoz guaranteed ? All other connections seem safe...
Interrail or separate tickets ? What are OGV and A trains in Spain like ? Can I go first class (or equivalent) all the way ?
Best way to purchase tickets ? I usually do all my ticket shopping at the Brussels Midi travel center...

Many thanks in advance,

 

[rvdborgt]

As to Interrail or regular tickets: Interrail is not valid in Ouigo. Also, there's no pass holder availability anymore on the 14:00 Lyon-Brussels on 30/10. You could split the Interrail reservation in Lille though; also note that a regular ticket Lille-Brussels can be cheaper than a pass reservation.
NMBS don't sell Portuguese tickets and I doubt they can sell Ouigo tickets, so use cp.pt (or a CP ticket office) and ouigo.com for those.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I'd give Ouigo a miss in Spain - very tired and unrefurbished Duplex sets - plenty of RENFE services to choose from. The single and ancient railcar from Entroncamento to Badajoz can get a bit cosy - take refreshments!

As an aside through services from Porto to Vigo have ended - you now have to change at Valenca.

 

[MarcVD]

I'd give Ouigo a miss in Spain - very tired and unrefurbished Duplex sets

OK point taken. There are many alternatives indeed. So let's ditch Ouigo.

What about Iryo ? Valid alternative or not ? There is one 11:22 - 14:14 that might be good...

 

[Watershed]

Iryo were supposed to become a participating operator for Interrail & Eurail on 1 April, but the launch was pulled shortly before go-live due to "technical issues" with the reservation system. They were supposed to go live "soon" but that doesn't seem to have happened yet, some 5.5 months later.

I suspect there is more to this than either Iryo or Eurail are willing to admit to (in public)...

 

[30907]

From Madrid I would catch the AVE to Narbonne, certainly with a pass.
You could comfortably make that with an overnight at Merida (or Badajoz, but M would be more interesting).

 

[nwales58]

What are OGV and A trains in Spain like ? Can I go first class (or equivalent) all the way ?

Extremadura Alvias are S-730 so slightly lower density (1 row less) than most Talgo coaches. Madrid-Barcelona Ave type varies but definitely not S-106 at present (due to suspect track) so no risk of 2+3 seating in standard. International Ave are the TGV sets obviously.

'First class' on Renfe is a separate choice of a) seat ('Confort' or 'XL' for 2+1 on all Alvia and Ave, ignoring S-106) and b) included lounge and catering ('Premium') on Ave only. If paying for tickets you want Elige Confort though if buying through a belgian ticket office it may show as something else in their systems. I really would buy from Renfe online so you can choose seats, avoid the coach which has big dogs in it ('Mascota') and so on. I don't know how Interrail reservations work from abroad, I've only done it at Renfe ticket office.

On your original plan, if you want First and use Ave Madrid-Barcelona, Premium costs a flat Eur 19 more than Elige Confort and gives access to the lounges at both ends for waiting for connections as well as an airline-type meal on the train. Through Ave to France has Confort but not Premium, though it does domestically so you could look at a split booking.

If you fancy trying Iryo for Frecciarossa experience, look at their web site as there are about 4 combinations of seat/coach type and catering level.

If either of you are over 60, get a Renfe Tarjeta Dorada, cost Eur 6, and gives 25%+ discount

Now there are three Alvias from Extremadura they no longer seem to get full which used to be a 'beware'.

I'd second @30907's idea of staying the night in Extremadura, rather than slogging on to Madrid and needing a hotel close to Atocha. Also gives a fallback if the connection in Badajoz fails as there's a later MD service to Mérida with a connection to Cáceres.

A morning Alvia gets you to Atocha at 1143 which catches the 1318 Intl Ave. If you chose this, as above, Mérida or Caceres are nicer than Badajoz, it's a question of where you want a spanish dinner/evening. Mérida (romain remains) only has a few hotels within walking distance of the station. Caceres (beautiful historic centre) station is about 2km, or bus, to the old centre.

If there's a strong reason to stay in Beziers it adds a short TER as the Ave only stops at Narbonne, Montpellier S-R and Nimes.

Unless you want lunch in Lyon (which I can see the point of) how about a through TGV to Brussels? The morning one goes through Montpellier and Nimes main stations, the afternoon one from M Sud de France and N Pont du Gard which are slightly less convenient.

 

[williamn]

As an aside through services from Porto to Vigo have ended - you now have to change at Valenca.

Really?! What’s the reason for that? Crazy!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Really?! What’s the reason for that? Crazy!

CP have ended their lease on the RENFE DMUs - presumably cost pressures - and don't have anything suitable of their own. The line to Valenca is also now electrified. Next year the Spanish side of the line is due for extensive reconstruction anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2025 ==

A morning Alvia gets you to Atocha at 1143 which catches the 1318 Intl Ave. If you chose this, as above, Mérida or Caceres are nicer than Badajoz, it's a question of where you want a spanish dinner/evening. Mérida (romain remains) only has a few hotels within walking distance of the station.

Yes I'd give Badajoz a miss - I had the misfortune to stay there overnight last autumn. There was absolutely nowhere for dinner on Sunday night and I had to resort to the only bar I could find open! The station is also on the other side of the river and fair old step from the centre. Not to be outdone the bus station is even more badly located.

 

[nwales58]

Really?! What’s the reason for that? Crazy!

Electrification. Congrats to Portugal on getting on with and finishing it.

With one RENFE DMU shuttling to Valença it would now be possible to have 4 connections a day in place of the 2 through trains which could grow traffic at lower resource cost than before. Unlikelyto happen though.

Next year the Spanish side of the line is due for extensive reconstruction anyway.

Also (I haven’t been there since electrification) openrailwaymap shows 25kV AC across the bridge with changeover to 3kV on the spanish side, so a suitable broad gauge EMU (another Renfe soap opera) could run as far as Valença at least. Valença-Nine is apparently now ETCS, is there an overlay further south or is Convel required to get to Porto?

Back to @MarcVD, if you want to avoid high-speed sets, you can get from Badajoz to Puertollano and beyond on a regional DMU and continue on regional services via Albacete, Valencia to Barcelona.

 

[williamn]

Great about the electrification but loosing yet another direct route into Portugal is unfortunate. Seat 61 implies it’s only until December though.

 

[MarcVD]

I have made a variant in my schedule that eliminates "low cost" companies.

30/10/2025
Porto Campanha 10:45 IC 720 to Lisboa Appolonia
Change at Entroncamento 12:58 - 13:36 for R 485 to Bajadoz
Change at Bajadoz 17:26 - 17:48 for A 295 to Madrid Atocha 22:18
Overnight - 31/10/2025
Madrid Atocha 10:27 AVE 3303 to Barcelona Sants
Change at Barcelona Sants 13:19 - 16:25 for TGV 9706 to Paris Lyon -> Beziers 18:50
Overnight - 01/11/2025
Beziers 09:11 TGV 6871 to Lyon Part Dieu
Change at Lyon Part Dieu 11:48 - 14:00 for TGV 9866 to Bruxelles Midi 17:56

Madrid and Beziers have been chosen for overnight because I do not want to risk stations "in the middle of the fields" where it would
possibly be difficult to find hotels and restaurants in close proximity. I'm 66 years old and will be traveling alone with 1 full week worth of
luggage in tow (can't ask my wife to take it all on the plane...) so I need to reduce walking to a minimum and ensure it is reasonably flat.

I try if possible to cut my travel in two legs in order to be able to stretch a bit and eat something better than the proverbial SNCF sandwich.

To summarize the ticketing part :

- buy the two legs in Portugal at www.cp.pt as there apparently is no other choice
- buy the two spanish legs at www.renfe.es in order to be able to chose my seats
- buy the three french legs at sncf-connect.com

Had a look for the french part; sncf-connect.com says that the Lyon-Brussels train is full already. Another one is available 17:00 - 20:45
It also proposes me to buy a "carte avantage senior TGV Inoui" that would cost €49 and spare me € 114 on the ticket prices. Anyone has
done that already ? How long does this "carte avantage" last ?

On pt.es and renfe.com all looks OK.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Also (I haven’t been there since electrification) openrailwaymap shows 25kV AC across the bridge with changeover to 3kV on the spanish side, so a suitable broad gauge EMU (another Renfe soap opera) could run as far as Valença at least.

Electrification from the Intl. Bridge to the Vigo - Ourense classic line isn't live yet - hence the need for DMUs. The track is also due to be doubled, but it is a big job with several rock cuttings en-route.

 

[MarcVD]

OK, all tickets purchased. All on line, 1 class where possible, choice of seat,
premium on AVE (for the lounge access in Barcelona), advantage card on SNCF.

Revised schedule with prices

Porto Campanha 10:45 IC 720 to Lisboa Appolonia
Change at Entroncamento 12:58 - 13:36 for R 485 to Bajadoz € 21,75 for both trains
Change at Bajadoz 17:26 - 17:48 for A 295 to Madrid Atocha 22:18 € 42,85
Overnight - 31/10/2025
Madrid Atocha 10:27 AVE 3303 to Barcelona Sants € 142,20
Change at Barcelona Sants 13:19 - 16:25 for TGV 9706 to Paris Lyon -> Beziers 18:50 € 90
Overnight - 01/11/2025
Beziers 09:11 TGV 6871 to Lyon Part Dieu € 59
Change at Lyon Part Dieu 11:48 - 17:00 for TGV 9864 to Bruxelles Midi 20:45 € 121

For a grand total of € 476. For comparison, a business class flight (direct, Brussels Airlines)
on Oct. 30 costs € 694. So, two nights included, I kind of break even...

The 3 web sites I have used could all be way much friendlier with some programming effort...

 

[reddragon]

CP still show the Vigo to Portos service as running. Screenshot of 19:10 Porto-Vigo below

CP.PT



RENFE

 

[RT4038]

CP still show the Vigo to Portos service as running. Screenshot of 19:10 Porto-Vigo below

CP.PT

View attachment 190569

RENFE

View attachment 190570

I believe the 'service' is still running, but with a physical change of train at the frontier. Bit like the ex FEVE narrow gauge trains along the north coast of Spain - one service but through passengers change rolling stock en route.

 

[HS2isgood]

Yeah, it's a Renfe Class 592 Vigo - Viana and a Comboios Class 2240 Viana - Porto. Guaranteed connection.