Tresspassing in an emergency

[LCC106]

Hi I T S. If I've read this correctly, a friend of yours had a medical emergency recently. A senior member of a TOC failed to come to your friend's aid and you are unhappy about this.

Firstly, I'm interested as to how you know that the individual was a senior member of a TOC. Secondly, I'm just wondering what you are trying to ascertain and why?

I don't have my PTS - I'll soon be training for it - but some very experienced members (including first aiders) have said that they would not risk safety by crossing the line in a potentially unsafe manner. I'd trust their judgment whether it is just that or based on the rules. It seems that you disagree with their points of view. Personally, I would have to agree with them. Safety first.

Could I turn this on its head and ask how you would have responded had you been that person on the other platform? What do you think the possible consequences of your actions would have been? Finally, a few people have asked if you are a qualified first aider. I may have missed your response ... are you?

I'll watch this thread with interest but from a distance. Early start for 2nd day on the job tomorrow

 

[transportphoto]

Hi I T S. If I've read this correctly, a friend of yours had a medical emergency recently. A senior member of a TOC failed to come to your friend's aid and you are unhappy about this.

Firstly, I'm interested as to how you know that the individual was a senior member of a TOC. Secondly, I'm just wondering what you are trying to ascertain and why?

I don't have my PTS - I'll soon be training for it - but some very experienced members (including first aiders) have said that they would not risk safety by crossing the line in a potentially unsafe manner. I'd trust their judgment whether it is just that or based on the rules. It seems that you disagree with their points of view. Personally, I would have to agree with them. Safety first.

Could I turn this on its head and ask how you would have responded had you been that person on the other platform? What do you think the possible consequences of your actions would have been? Finally, a few people have asked if you are a qualified first aider. I may have missed your response ... are you?

I'll watch this thread with interest but from a distance. Early start for 2nd day on the job tomorrow

I don't believe this to be the case atall, I am reading this as a made-up example, which has turned into a heated debate

TP

 

[wensley]

Don't know if the mods might want to lock this as it's going in circles! An answer has been given whether it is 'liked' or not:
- Said person would be in the wrong, breaking the law, rail regs and First Aid best practice.
- There is no good reason for a member of the public to be on or about the line unaccompanied
- Rail staff must also obey the rules, their safety is paramount as well.


Sorry, have to add, post 1,000

 

[Hydro]

DRABC, not heard that in a while. I trained in combat first aid, and DRABC *still* applied. Major, MAJOR consideration in assessing response to wounded or injured personnel is "Could I, or others, become another casualty?". It's like not approaching electric shock victims, not diving into fast flowing rivers, not running across railway lines....

If you think that's heartless, wait until you look into major incident triage. I'll paraphrase an RAMC medic, who once told me "It's the screaming ones we pass over. The silent ones need our immediate attention".

 

[tsr]

DRABC, not heard that in a while. I trained in combat first aid, and DRABC *still* applied. Major, MAJOR consideration in assessing response to wounded or injured personnel is "Could I, or others, become another casualty?". It's like not approaching electric shock victims, not diving into fast flowing rivers, not running across railway lines....

If you think that's heartless, wait until you look into major incident triage. I'll paraphrase an RAMC medic, who once told me "It's the screaming ones we pass over. The silent ones need our immediate attention".

You're quite right about triage - and sometimes you have to apply that to the risks as well as to the overall health issues of the casualty, as you doubtless know.

A real life example is this: I was on a "red" grade mountain biking route with a friend recently. It was reasonably challenging, but someone had modified the course without permission to make it tougher, and my friend was catapulted 10 feet into the air due to one of the modifications catching on his bike wheel. My friend appeared to have moderate to severe facial injuries, despite his helmet being correctly used, and initially was unconscious. Another danger was the number of riders on the course who may have come to the same fate or even run over the casualty. Since this could have resulted in more injuries, once I had ensured he was breathing and not bleeding too heavily, I had to ensure nobody could come to any further harm, although I was able to keep danger at bay during forty or so seconds of initial treatment. In order to keep other cyclists from being injured, I had to leave the casualty, but I was able to get other riders to monitor him and to call for a patrol vehicle. By this time, he was conscious and able to control his own breathing.

Such are the complexities of what may seem to the untrained eye to be a simple bike accident. Fortunately, my friend's injuries were examined by doctors and his dentist, and he had escaped injuries like serious fractures and dental injuries by about 5mm, so it turned out that he healed quite quickly. Incidentally, we are both first aid qualified.

Sadly the most obvious option is not necessarily the best to choose. I can apply this to your railway-related incident.

Simply put, crossing the track where you are not expected to will pose more risks than going via a crossing point, or using a help point in the first instance. I have dealt with seizures before, and whilst you need to clear the airway and move the casualty to the recovery position, I cannot possibly see that being hit by a train would be a good potential first step. Sometimes, in this situation, people will be worried about injuries sustained to the head or elsewhere by falling. By the time you saw this, the damage had been done, and it is likely that first aid would only provide a very temporary remedy to a fractured skull, swelling of the brain lining, spinal injury or simply unconsciousness. In such a situation, your safety can still remain paramount. It's probably worth noting that even CPR has been effective after a short delay.

 

[Max]

Don't know if the mods might want to lock this as it's going in circles!

If you'd reported it to us it would have been done a few hours ago no doubt! :roll:

Since the OP doesn't seem to want to accept the truth, I think it would be better if this just finished now.