Trespass on the Railways

[JDi]

Hello everyone,

I am quite curious as to how there have been so many incidents of trespass on the railways lately. How can people trespass on the railways, when security is supposed to be watertight?

 

[EM2]

It's not that difficult to climb over a fence.

 

[jon0844]

Build a bigger fence, and get the trespassers to pay for it!

 

[jopsuk]

What local newspaper do you work for?
Are there stats showing that there's any increase in reported trespass incidents?
Secure? Have you seen a railway ever? Really not much stopping anyone accessing the railway

 

[Harvey G]

Do the trespassers, if apprehended, ever actually get hit with the fine (£1000) for being on the line? I'd imagine the cost to the railway industry could be many times that on some occasions.

Harvey

 

[ComUtoR]

It's not that difficult to climb over a fence.

Or walk off the end of a platform.

 

[theironroad]

I realise some of these replies are the obvious, but people should note that the op is a new member and this is their first post on these fora. That's a first post asking about weakness in railway security. I'd be very careful in replies.

 

[ComUtoR]

What I find interesting is why the OP even thinks there is security. The thing is, the answers really are blindly obvious.

The platform is open and nothing is stopping you from going trackside; even by climbing down from the platform.

Many many houses back onto the line so its a matter of climbing over your back fence and sometimes less than that.

There are many access gates, evacuation steps etc.

The railway is a very open place. It is also quite devoid of people. Yes there are PWay all over but it's still miles and miles of track with very much no-one around.

How would they even start to secure it; other than lock a gate or stick up a fence ?

 

[LAX54]

Which is why probably in the rest of the world, there are a distinct lack of fences, and they do seem overly concerned about people taking short cuts along the railway, only this Country seems to pander to the stop tresspass at all costs brigade

 

[Bookd]

Which is why probably in the rest of the world, there are a distinct lack of fences, and they do seem overly concerned about people taking short cuts along the railway, only this Country seems to pander to the stop tresspass at all costs brigade

Did you mean to say 'do not seem overly concerned' ?

 

[Llanigraham]

Which is why probably in the rest of the world, there are a distinct lack of fences, and they do seem overly concerned about people taking short cuts along the railway, only this Country seems to pander to the stop tresspass at all costs brigade

The difference being the way railways were legislated for and by here compared to much of the rest of the world.

Did you mean "Don't" seem overly concerned?

And I do not understand how we "pander" to stop trespass.
It is illegal; end of.:roll:

 

[3141]

The difference being the way railways were legislated for and by here compared to much of the rest of the world.

Did you mean "Don't" seem overly concerned?

And I do not understand how we "pander" to stop trespass.
It is illegal; end of.:roll:

The way I understood oldsiggie's remark is that until 30 years ago, roughly, trespassing on the railway may have been "illegal; end of" but it happened a lot of the time and on whole no-one worried much. I was reminded of this recently when watching a series of DVDs called Waterloo Sunset. There's a scene at one of the stations on the 4-track SW main line - Brookwood, possibly, - which shows a steam-hauled train passing, and immediately afterwards someone jumps down from the platform on one side and walks across the tracks to the other one. I didn't stop the playback to check if it's a photographer or a member of staff. As I've written in another thread, in the late 1940s, when I was nine, my friends and I used to sit on the embankment of the East Coast line near Hadley Wood, and sometimes put coins on the track, very near to a signal box, and I don't recall ever being told off. But nowadays, people regard trespassing as so serious that the OP on this thread wonders how the railways can be so easily accessible that trespass can be possible.

Of course, on many routes trains run much faster and more frequently than they used to, so being on the track is more risky. I can't believe that being on an embankment puts anyone in much danger, and I daresay there are members of this forum who've done that in order to get a photo they want. (But it may prove dangerous for me to have written that last sentence!)

 

[BestWestern]

Build a bigger fence, and get the trespassers to pay for it!

Who are you, Trump?!

 

[J-2739]

And I do not understand how we "pander" to stop trespass.
It is illegal; end of.:roll:

That emoji wasn't really needed, surely?

Other countries it is illegal, and they do away with fences just fine.

I suppose it's to do with our strong health and safety culture (no opinion here!).

 

[47271]

The OP may have a point. Just this evening:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38887424

This was in the Queen Street High Level Tunnel at 5pm on a Monday for goodness sake, how, and why, do you do that?

Rail services to and from Glasgow Queen Street station have resumed after trespassers earlier got on to the line.

Reports suggest that two children ran into a tunnel at about 17:00.

All trains to and from the station were earlier cancelled while the tunnel was checked.

A spokesman later said: "Train services running to and from this station are returning to normal but some services will still be cancelled, delayed or revised."

He added: "We have carried out our check of the tunnel at Queen Street for trespassers and are now able to operate our trains.

"However, all services to and from Queen Street are subject to disruption until we recover our service completely, passengers can use trains from the low level at Queen Street and also from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh."

 

[Llanigraham]

That emoji wasn't really needed, surely?

Other countries it is illegal, and they do away with fences just fine.

I suppose it's to do with our strong health and safety culture (no opinion here!).

I would be interested to know what other countries has Railway trespass as a criminal matter; can you please state them?

Trespass on the railway was a criminal matter long before H & S was even thought about. so your last point in incorrect.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

The OP may have a point. Just this evening:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38887424

This was in the Queen Street High Level Tunnel at 5pm on a Monday for goodness sake, how, and why, do you do that?

I understand that this was Queen Street High level which (since the 2016 refurbishment) has no ramps. This would be a busy time with lots of staff at the barriers but none usually at the far end of platforms beyond the trains.

10 trains cancelled initially (and probably others later as a knock on) and a fair pile of delay minutes http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CWLRSSJ/2017/02/06/1715?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

I gather it was a bit of a surprise.

 

[J-2739]

I would be interested to know what other countries has Railway trespass as a criminal matter; can you please state them?

France? Germany? Japan? Any European country?

Personally, I'd be very suprised if these countries didn't criminate this.

Trespass on the railway was a criminal matter long before H & S was even thought about. so your last point in incorrect.

Nah, I meant with the abundance of fences. Sorry if I didn't write my post right.

 

[47271]

I gather it was a bit of a surprise.

I was a bit surprised when I heard about it on Radio Scotland this evening.

'FFS' I said to myself, luckily in my car on the M90 at the time.

 

[Llanigraham]

France? Germany? Japan? Any European country?

Personally, I'd be very suprised if these countries didn't criminate this.

You made a statement, I asked you to back it up with facts, but you seem unable to do so.
Much of Europe do not have trespass legislation as we do in England and Wales and I have never seen a legal notice of such in France, only a warning not to cross tracks.

Nah, I meant with the abundance of fences. Sorry if I didn't write my post right.

We fence railways because many(most?) of the enabling Acts of the original lines insisted on them, and the legal aspect for trespass was also included. As I said it has nothing to do with H & S and pre-dates it by many years.

 

[fowler9]

Until my local station or even the bottom of my garden start looking like a prison perimeter people are going to get on to the track. Not sure that is the kind of world I want to live in.

 

[since1814]

Coincidentally today I was walking near the line looking for good viewing points, and in one place there is a clear path leading right up to the trackside. In the absence of a fence is there a guideline as to how close one may safely approach? I could imagine the distance of the yellow line on a platform and stay behind that but I suspect that would be frowned upon.

 

[pne]

How would they even start to secure it; other than lock a gate or stick up a fence ?

Isn't that what Eurostar do? To stop people from smuggling themselves through the tunnel then jumping off the train and getting *off* the railway premises without a check?

 

[DarloRich]

I smell a journo - why not give the NR press team a ring. I am sure they can help you with all the information you need

 

[eMeS]

... In the absence of a fence is there a guideline as to how close one may safely approach? I could imagine the distance of the yellow line on a platform and stay behind that but I suspect that would be frowned upon.

Having done some videoing on both WCML and ECML stations, I can assure you that standing behind the yellow line can be quite scary when a freight with containers with frequent gaps goes through at speed. Much, much more windage than for a smooth sided passenger train. I've even felt it necessary to steady my heavy tripod!

 

[AlterEgo]

You made a statement, I asked you to back it up with facts, but you seem unable to do so.
Much of Europe do not have trespass legislation as we do in England and Wales and I have never seen a legal notice of such in France, only a warning not to cross tracks.

Can you provide references for this? As I cannot find anything definitive on Google.

 

[philthetube]

The OP may have a point. Just this evening:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38887424

This was in the Queen Street High Level Tunnel at 5pm on a Monday for goodness sake, how, and why, do you do that?

Reports suggest?

Did this actually happen.

 

[ian959]

I would be interested to know what other countries has Railway trespass as a criminal matter; can you please state them?

Australia in general, although there are state to state variations.

Apart from the metropolitan areas, fences on the railways are virtually non-existent.

The following applies in NSW:

Trespass is both a criminal and civil (private) offence. In short, you can be sued by an individual (usually the owner) and the state/police.

Trespass is an offence against property, meaning that you have interfered with the rights of the owner or rightful possessor without their permission.

- Inclosed Lands Protection Act 1901 (NSW) sections 4 and 4A: it is an offence to enter into enclosed lands without a lawful excuse and without the owner's permission
- Crimes Act 1914 (Cth) section 89: it is an offence to trespass onto commonwealth land
- Public Order Act 1971 (Cth) section 11 and 12: it is an offence to enter into or obstruct commonwealth or territory property

If you trespass into restricted private land, you may be committing a civil tort, in addition to one of the criminal offences above, as well as breaching a contractual term (e.g. where you purchase a ticket to enter into a transport area and there are terms attached to that ticket).

 

[Bromley boy]

You made a statement, I asked you to back it up with facts, but you seem unable to do so.
Much of Europe do not have trespass legislation as we do in England and Wales and I have never seen a legal notice of such in France, only a warning not to cross tracks.



We fence railways because many(most?) of the enabling Acts of the original lines insisted on them, and the legal aspect for trespass was also included. As I said it has nothing to do with H & S and pre-dates it by many years.

The frequency of trespass incidents does bring into question the effectiveness of the anti-trespass legislation. Those who treapass for nefarious purposes such as copper theft, vandilism etc. are unlikely to be deterred.

While it predates "health and safety" we do have something of a culture of over-reaction to reports of trespass. Trains are cautioned left right and centre causing large delays and inconvenience. Other countries, as I understand it, take a more laissez faire approach where people trespassing do so at very much at their own risk.