Trespass incident Ribblehead 6th Aug

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[SPADTrap]

Yes really reasonable response, NOT! Over the top reaction as usual to this sort of thing.

Only in the UK do we get so hot under the collar about this.

Yes it's illegal, yes they shouldn't be doing it but yes people do silly things.

What perspective are you speaking from? I can take a good guess it isn't one that could see you barrelling around a curve at line speed to be confronted by someone standing on your line.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

All very well, until it disrupts your journey.

Or you bowl one of them over..or you have to pick up the pieces, or you witness it, or ...

 

[Darandio]

Let's just wait until the inevitable happens, and it unfortunately will happen. Look at the clowns here, look at the clowns at Appleby, the clown who nearly got minced by the 170, the clown who fell down between platform and train, it's a recurring theme.

When it does happen and your beloved steam tours are banned, will you be back here crying about it?

 

[neilmc]

The risks of being fatally injured whilst trespassing on the Settle and Carlisle line are NOT huge, any more than the risks incurred by a sober watchful adult in crossing a rural road. However, with the culture we currently have in place, the huge number of CCTV cameras around not to mention any individual being able to whip out a cellphone and record such activity, the risks of being PROSECUTED have risen sharply which is surely the main reason for being circumspect about crossing or being "beyond the fence" anywhere on the rail network.

It's a long long time since I've been an enthusiast but I am old enough to recall being able to cross lines and wander around depots relatively freely and AFAIK nobody got killed, although equally nobody would have delayed any trains at the place in question since if you did get injured or killed it would have been your own silly fault. I recall an authorised visit to Selhurst when an entire coachload of enthusiasts had to step over an electrified third rail - now THAT surely held some danger!

In fact, if there was a GENUINE overriding concern for safety on the railways, the entire third-rail network would have long since been eradicated, and London Transport would have been forced to install sliding doors Singapore-style on their busiest station platforms at least. Plus there are any number of places where I can perfectly legally walk across a busy railway line using a public footpath or even at a station such as Silverdale where the Lancaster platform has to be reached by a barrow crossing, where presumably I am suddenly considered responsible enough to ascertain that there is no nuclear flask train about to mow me down. Or that the risk is not in fact all that huge, certainly not enough to warrant building a footbridge!

Of course, there are a large number of people who seem quite oblivious to the possibility of being prosecuted when they actually venture on to the railway to wilfully commit suicide, and there seems to be an increasing number of these poor folk who end up on a statistics list to demonstrate why railways are apparently so dangerous.

 

[grumblingalong]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae_P4OO1TtM

I'm surprised no one else has left this here yet.

What conclusions people would like to make about this topic they are free to make, however anybody stupid enough to stand anywhere near a running line for the benefit of their photo/videography is exactly that, stupid.

edit: sorry Darandio just seen your mention of it.

 

[lyndhurst25]

That's not a trespass. This is a proper trespass....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/deadmans_handle/4278194088/


(On reading his Flickr profile it seems he was a guard at the time so maybe not strictly trespassing, just brave!)

 

[RichmondCommu]

There were times in years gone by where I may have taken photo's and yes technically I would have been trespassing although I would never stand anywhere near the track like those in the photo. Would I do it today No, because of the hanging offence mentality you get these days from the authorities and some people on this forum, also possibly being regarded as a terrorist threat, I was once regarded as a terrorist threat for simply taking photo's from a public road bridge although not on the S&C I would add, and it also being used as a potential reason to stop running both steam and diesel enthusiast charters.

Am I condoning those in the photo no i'm not, but simply pointing out its not exactly unusual on the S&C although standing where they did is a little extreme regardless of whether it was effectively safe or not.

What makes me feel sad is that you have apparently stopped straying on to the line side because of your apparent fear of being arrested as opposed to being interested in your own safety / well being.

I concur that its not unusual to see rail enthusiasts straying onto the line side on the S & C (for what its worth my in-laws live in Dentdale) and quite rightly the BTP need to be targeting this area because of this and discouraging trespass.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What makes me feel sad is that you have apparently stopped straying on to the line side because of your apparent fear of being arrested as opposed to being interested in your own safety / well being.

Quite possibly because someone who understands the railway being at the side of a railway with a train every couple of hours is really not at massive risk. In some countries this is entirely accepted practice.

Our railway goes for as near to 100% safety as possible, so it has a blanket rule that you can't be there. But that doesn't mean there is a huge risk to everyone. It's more that the easiest way to handle safety matters is one simple (and well-enforced) rule for everyone not needing to be there for work purposes - keep off.

 

[47802]

What makes me feel sad is that you have apparently stopped straying on to the line side because of your apparent fear of being arrested as opposed to being interested in your own safety / well being.

I think I have enough common sense not to cross the track or stand too near it, yes perhaps a might trip and fall near to the track in which case it would be my own stupid fault, perhaps I might also trip and fall on an unmanned foot crossing across the railway, or trip off the pavement into the path of a road vehicle or a Manchester Tram, but more likely none of these things will happen.

I admit some people do seem to be lacking that level of common sense as the photo's and video's above shows.

 

[broadgage]

Another stunning example of 'enthusiasts' treating the working railway as their private play thing. Why is that some parts of the enthusiast fraternity feel that this kind of thing is acceptable? Would they trespass at an Airport if they were plane spotters?

Yes plane spotters do regularly trespass at airports, often at smaller airports with less security. And often in pursuit of pictures of unusual aircraft.

 

[sonorguy]

Calling for people to be shot for trespassing is an overreaction - think of all the shooters at risk of PTSD and guilt-induced suicide, simply for ending someone's life!

Slight thread drift...... PTSD is my area of professional expertise, both in military and civilian life and it frustrates me when it's misunderstood in this manner. Setting aside the obvious fact that Tom isn't really advocating shooting trespassers, anyone who took on the so-far imaginary role of 'shooter' would have done just that, chosen to take the role on and therefore highly unlikely to suffer PTSD as a result.

PTSD is normally caused by an incident that the sufferer cannot control. By far the highest number of cases in the UK are caused by childhood sexual abuse, with smaller numbers of RTC victims, PTSD resulting from stillbirth or complicated childbirth with a much smaller number of military cases, blue light workers and train drivers/rail personnel.

For train drivers it's the horror of having someone step out in front of you in the certain knowledge of what's going to happen plus the equally certain knowledge that there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it. People in jobs like Tom's are also at a reasonably high level of risk for PTSD symptoms.

It's a bit of a generalisation but for soldiers it's normally seeing a mate get blown up, killed or maimed, particularly by IED. Deaths in firefights, as a rule, tend to generate less symptoms as people have had the chance to influence their own survival by being able to shoot back.

To get back on topic the real point isn't whether this particular tresspass was dangerous or not, it's that if it continues and somebody gets killed or seriously injured it would significantly jeopardise the future of these railtours. For a start, even if NR allowed them, the insurance premium for the operator would rise significantly. I'm not sure what the total cost is for dealing with a railway fatality, but for RTC fatalities it's over £100k per fatality if I recall correctly.

 

[anme]

And in those other Countries there isn't some Ambulance chasing solicitor suing the train operator/network rail/anyone else they can think of when the trespassing muppet gets wiped out by a train! :roll:

Please could you provide a source showing this has ever actually happened?

 

[455driver]

Please could you provide a source showing this has ever actually happened?

There have been several instances of people successfully suing Network Rail when a trespasser has been injured or killed, normally because NR were held accountable because the fencing had been vandalised and not repaired.

 

[Elwyn]

I am not a professional driver, but a few years back I drove steam trains in Poland for a week, on the Wolsztyn Experience where you were supervised by a Polish crew. In Poland, most rural tracks are unfenced, and there are dozens of level crossings without barriers. Access to the lineside is generally unrestricted. As you travelled along, because it was a steam service, you were often aware of photographers alongside the track. Clearly no problem, as long as they stayed a safe distance away. And with modern lenses there’s no need to get dangerously close, is there?

However at one station, there was a photographer who had set up his tripod, right in the middle of the single track line, directly facing the locomotive. When we got the right away, I pointed out to the Polish driver supervising me that there was someone on the tracks about 100 yards away whom I was bound to run down if he didn’t move. The Polish driver just shrugged and said in English: “Stupid Brits. We get them all the time” and told me to open the regulator and whistle. I can tell you that was a very strange feeling. Though part of your brain tells you the idiot will surely move away in time, it was still very un-nerving to accelerate towards him, knowing I might not be able to stop in time if he didn’t move. It made me very aware of how a professional driver must feel, travelling at greater speed who finds someone unexpectedly close to the train, where it isn’t clearly obvious what they are doing, and there’s a risk you’ll hit them. It must be very unsettling indeed. From my own limited experience on the railways in Poland I noticed a lot of selfish spotters and photographers about who just didn’t think about the impact of their (often illegal) behaviour on drivers and other staff just doing their duty.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I think I have enough common sense not to cross the track or stand too near it, yes perhaps a might trip and fall near to the track in which case it would be my own stupid fault, perhaps I might also trip and fall on an unmanned foot crossing across the railway, or trip off the pavement into the path of a road vehicle or a Manchester Tram, but more likely none of these things will happen.

I admit some people do seem to be lacking that level of common sense as the photo's and video's above shows.

However its worth noting that you have every right to use an unmanned foot crossing on our railway network and have the same rights to walk / run along pavements. However you have no right to trespass on to railway property. You are quick to state that you have common sense but surely it can't be common sense to trespass on to railway property and run the risk of a heavy fine.

 

[JDi]

What constitutes trespass on the railway? Do you physically have to stand on the tracks, or just stand in front of the yellow lines?

 

[Dhassell]

Slightly confused why you brought back up a 1 and a half year old thread? :roll:

 

[SeanG]

What constitutes trespass on the railway? Do you physically have to stand on the tracks, or just stand in front of the yellow lines?

At the risk of furhter resurecting the thread, trespass on the railway is stepping past the fence/over the wall etc. You don't have to just be on the track

 

[RichmondCommu]

Slightly confused why you brought back up a 1 and a half year old thread? :roll:

One can only hope that he / she is not tempted to trespass.