Trespass at Clapham Junction

[Peter C]

Indeed but is there any evidence to show that ticket barriers really reduce trespass incidents?

I can't remember exactly what the thing I read said, in fact in my original post I only said "I think I read somewhere that even the introduction of ticket barriers can reduce the number of trespassers", not "I know for a fact it's true". I'll try and find it.

I found this, and I think I must have got confused at some point between this and trespassing (which sounds really bad when I put it like that):

To date, “restricting access to the means of suicide” is the most common technique used by authorities and operators. The study quoted above highlights that, following years of research, “reducing accessibility to train lines through installation of physical barriers is the only suicide prevention strategy that has been followed by a decrease in railway suicide”. In 2002, the installation of platform screen doors at Hong Kong stations saw suicide figures drop by almost 60%.

-Peter

EDIT: I've also done another Google, and found this, which I think we said earlier isn't terribly effective:

Over 15,000 metres of new fencing and gates have been installed at nearly 300 stations across Kent, Sussex and south London as part of a £2.3 million project to stop people trespassing on the railway.

The safety drive will reinforce fence-lines in key areas to protect people from intruding on the tracks and prevent disruption for passengers.

Network Rail south east’s anti-trespass project forms part of a £300m government-funded package to boost the resilience of the infrastructure on the Southern and Thameslink railway networks.

John Halsall, Southern region managing director, said: “This work is absolutely critical, not just for the people risking their lives by walking on the railway, but also for passengers because of the obvious disruption that trespassing creates.

“This year, we’ve seen a record number of young people killed or injured on the tracks across the country.

“Here in the south east, if the 750-volt electrified rail doesn’t kill you instantly, a 125-mph train will, so these works will help keep people off the railway, saving lives and delays for passengers.”

The project includes £1m for barriers at the end of platforms at almost 300 stations, £500,000 for fence-line improvements in the East Croydon and Brighton areas, and another £800,000 for anti-trespass measures at eight hotspot areas. The work is scheduled to be finished in the summer of 2020.

 

[Paul180]

Most platforms do have fences at platform ends but they are not full width. Rather than extending them to full width, most platforms have had rubber cone moulding anti trespass blocks added, but they are easy to walk over so not really a physical deterrent.

Not totally sure why fences not extended, but gauging might be an issue and even then if someone wanted to bypass them they could unless they are t shaped.

View attachment 68665

Why work over the anti trespass mat when you can go through the gate!

 

[Esker-pades]

Platform edge doors (at stations which can support them infrastructure wise).

-Peter

There's a thread from a while ago which, amongst other things, discusses platform edge doors in preventing suicide.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-proposed-solutions-from-network-rail.175802/

 

[Peter C]

There's a thread from a while ago which, amongst other things, discusses platform edge doors in preventing suicide.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-proposed-solutions-from-network-rail.175802/

Oh OK - it might have been that thread I read then.

Thanks,
-Peter

 

[swt_passenger]

Why work over the anti trespass mat when you can go through the gate!

Those gates generally have padlocks fitted, from what I’ve seen.

 

[hwl]

Worth pointing out that Clapham has regular (@ ~10min intervals) roving security guard patrols of the platform ends and at least 3 dispatch staff per island (and up to 8/9staff per platform face at some times of day)

 

[theironroad]

Why work over the anti trespass mat when you can go through the gate!

Yeah, agree in that photo the gate is not padlocked .

 

[Paul180]

Those gates generally have padlocks fitted, from what I’ve seen.

TBH I have never seen them with padlocks.

 

[theironroad]

TBH I have never seen them with padlocks.

Tbh, I'm struggling to remember seeing that many either.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Worth pointing out that Clapham has regular (@ ~10min intervals) roving security guard patrols of the platform ends and at least 3 dispatch staff per island (and up to 8/9staff per platform face at some times of day)

Yes and I was having a conversation with a security person at the end of the platform just a couple of minutes prior to the incident

 

[Jocques]

What a plonker for doing such a thing. At least no-one was hurt.

-Peter

A 'plonker'? Someone with mental health issues who's contemplating suicide is a plonker? Christ on a bike.

 

[Peter C]

A 'plonker'? Someone with mental health issues who's contemplating suicide is a plonker? Christ on a bike.

And what evidence do you have to support your point exactly?

-Peter

 

[headshot119]

And what evidence do you have to support your point exactly?

-Peter

Well your stupid comment for one...

https://www.samaritans.org/support-us/volunteer/ Get in touch with the Samaritans, and ask if you can go on one of the suicide awareness courses based around the railway, honestly it will open your eyes.

 

[Peter C]

Well your stupid comment for one...

I don't think that the user had any evidence to support the fact that the person was "Someone with mental health issues who's contemplating suicide". If they were contemplating suicide, I am happy to apologise, but until someone proves to me they were contemplating suicide and not just wandering around on the lines, I won't.

-Peter

 

[headshot119]

I don't think that the user had any evidence to support the fact that the person was "Someone with mental health issues who's contemplating suicide". If they were contemplating suicide, I am happy to apologise, but until someone proves to me they were contemplating suicide and not just wandering around on the lines, I won't.

-Peter

I'll admit I was slow to edit my original post to add the link and further comment. Take a look, and see if you can go on one of the courses, your eyes will be opened, and you could well save a life.

 

[Peter C]

I'll admit I was slow to edit my original post to add the link and further comment. Take a look, and see if you can go on one of the courses, your eyes will be opened, and you could well save a life.

I will have a look, although due to other issues I won't be able to go on one of the courses. Apologies if my response was a bit harsh seeing as I responded before you had chance to edit your post.

-Peter

EDIT: I've had a quick look at the page and it looks good, although sadly I can't join in for reasons I won't disclose on the internet. The Samaritans are very good in what they do.

 

[headshot119]

I will have a look, although due to other issues I won't be able to go on one of the courses. Apologies if my response was a bit harsh seeing as I responded before you had chance to edit your post.

-Peter

EDIT: I've had a quick look at the page and it looks good, although sadly I can't join in for reasons I won't disclose on the internet. The Samaritans are very good in what they do.

I appreciate your response, and no hard feelings.

For anyone else reading, if you can spare the time, especially if you are an enthusiast who spends time around the railway, or staff who will obviously spend time around the railway. Take a look at going on the courses the Samaritans put on, they really are eye opening, and you really could save a life.

 

[Antman]

TBH I have never seen them with padlocks.

TBH I have never seen them with padlocks.

Neither have I seen any padlocked.

I'm guessing the guy at Clapham Junction has mental health problems? A fence isn't going to stop somebody who wants to get onto the track and the ticket gates at CJ are often left open.

 

[Jocques]

And what evidence do you have to support your point exactly?

-Peter

'He just walked off end of platform 13 and was acting wierdly, near crossover, nearly got knocked down by a Gatex'

The actions of someone perfectly sane and reasonable, eh? People like you aren't worth the effort.

 

[Darandio]

'He just walked off end of platform 13 and was acting wierdly, near crossover, nearly got knocked down by a Gatex'

The actions of someone perfectly sane and reasonable, eh? People like you aren't worth the effort.

And could equally be someone absolutely plastered or high as a kite.

It's also worth noting the 'plonker' comment came before more description had been added to the thread. Well done for selectively quoting though.

 

[ExRes]

'He just walked off end of platform 13 and was acting wierdly, near crossover, nearly got knocked down by a Gatex'

The actions of someone perfectly sane and reasonable, eh? People like you aren't worth the effort.

Have you ever heard of alcohol or drugs? why is 'mental health' always the fall back position these days?

 

[Antman]

Have you ever heard of alcohol or drugs? why is 'mental health' always the fall back position these days?

Whenever I've indulged in alcohol I've never had any urge to set foot on a railway line.

 

[Peter C]

'He just walked off end of platform 13 and was acting wierdly, near crossover, nearly got knocked down by a Gatex'

The actions of someone perfectly sane and reasonable, eh? People like you aren't worth the effort.

I would like to direct you to the following post:

And could equally be someone absolutely plastered or high as a kite.

It's also worth noting the 'plonker' comment came before more description had been added to the thread. Well done for selectively quoting though.

And then this:

Have you ever heard of alcohol or drugs? why is 'mental health' always the fall back position these days?

Whenever I've indulged in alcohol I've never had any urge to set foot on a railway line.

Your actions are not representative of a whole country, my friend.


-Peter

 

[ExRes]

Whenever I've indulged in alcohol I've never had any urge to set foot on a railway line.

Me neither, are you contending then, that alcohol and drugs aren't the cause of trespass incidents? if you are then I would say that you are very much mistaken, perhaps you remember the high profile case of cricketer Tom Maynard in 2012 for example

 

[Antman]

Me neither, are you contending then, that alcohol and drugs aren't the cause of trespass incidents? if you are then I would say that you are very much mistaken, perhaps you remember the high profile case of cricketer Tom Maynard in 2012 for example

I don't know, I wasn't there but mental health issues are a more likely reason.

If I recall correctly Tom Maynard was trying to escape from the police which is entirely different.

 

[ExRes]

I don't know, I wasn't there but mental health issues are a more likely reason.

If I recall correctly Tom Maynard was trying to escape from the police which is entirely different.

Maynard was stopped by the police after they had seen him driving erratically, he then abandoned his car and tried to cross the tracks, he was found to be nearly 4 times the alcohol limit and had taken cocaine and ecstasy, the only 'mental issue' I can see there is his selfish disregard for anyone else on the roads that night, perhaps you could be kind enough to explain why you think escaping from the police is "entirely different"

 

[Antman]

Maynard was stopped by the police after they had seen him driving erratically, he then abandoned his car and tried to cross the tracks, he was found to be nearly 4 times the alcohol limit and had taken cocaine and ecstasy, the only 'mental issue' I can see there is his selfish disregard for anyone else on the roads that night, perhaps you could be kind enough to explain why you think escaping from the police is "entirely different"

This is becoming rather pointless as neither of us know for certain why the bloke at Clapham Junction went on the tracks for no apparent reason, we can only guess. The Tom Maynard incident is totally different and therefore irrelevant.

 

[ExRes]

This is becoming rather pointless as neither of us know for certain why the bloke at Clapham Junction went on the tracks for no apparent reason, we can only guess. The Tom Maynard incident is totally different and therefore irrelevant.

The relevance is that you said in post #52 that you'd never had any urge to go onto the railway line when you'd indulged in alcohol and in post #55 that mental health issues were a more likely reason, as for #52 just because you or I have never wanted to trespass after taking alcohol doesn't mean for one second that others won't and in #55 there were no reported claims at the inquest that Maynard had any mental health issues whatsoever, you can't claim mental health issues for the Clapham incident in one post and then that you don't know for certain in another, anyway I agree that neither of us know why he did it so I won't post further on it

 

[Antman]

The relevance is that you said in post #52 that you'd never had any urge to go onto the railway line when you'd indulged in alcohol and in post #55 that mental health issues were a more likely reason, as for #52 just because you or I have never wanted to trespass after taking alcohol doesn't mean for one second that others won't and in #55 there were no reported claims at the inquest that Maynard had any mental health issues whatsoever, you can't claim mental health issues for the Clapham incident in one post and then that you don't know for certain in another, anyway I agree that neither of us know why he did it so I won't post further on it

The Maynard incident is irrelevant.