TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[adey2011]

Lloyds have amended their X27 timetable, the header though states "Machynlleth - Dolgellau - Abermaw/Barmouth" - whilst the times below only relate to "Machynlleth - Dolgellau". Is this a typo error or a taste of things to come?

 

[WelshBuses93]

Looks like a mistake. On the Gwynedd site, there's 2 timetables for the X27 and neither say Barmouth.

03/11/2014
http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_amserlen_bws.asp?rhif_gwasanaeth=X27

21/12/2014
http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_amserlen_bws.asp?rhif_gwasanaeth=X27_

 

[adey2011]

Looks like a mistake. On the Gwynedd site, there's 2 timetables for the X27 and neither say Barmouth.

03/11/2014
http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_amserlen_bws.asp?rhif_gwasanaeth=X27

21/12/2014
http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_amserlen_bws.asp?rhif_gwasanaeth=X27_

The timetable Gwynedd show from the 3rd November is completely different to that which Lloyds are showing on their website. The 06.10 departure from Machynlleth used to be a positioning run for the bus to become the T2 from Dolgellau, this is no longer required as the T2 times have changed. Both Gwynedd timetables show it so someone has it wrong.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Has the T1 timetable been changed this week, or are they just having a really bad day today? Just waited arround 40 minutes for a bus to turn up on what is supposed to be the half-hourly section between Aberystwyth and Aberaeron. In that time, four empty coaches ran past, presumably to be in place to collect school/college students later this afternoon. I had been expecting a T1, but the Richards Bros service turned up first, so I got on that, and earlier today I saw a T1 leave Aberystwyth only about 5 minutes ahead of the Richards service.

 

[Bwsbro]

Has the T1 timetable been changed this week, or are they just having a really bad day today? Just waited arround 40 minutes for a bus to turn up on what is supposed to be the half-hourly section between Aberystwyth and Aberaeron. In that time, four empty coaches ran past, presumably to be in place to collect school/college students later this afternoon. I had been expecting a T1, but the Richards Bros service turned up first, so I got on that, and earlier today I saw a T1 leave Aberystwyth only about 5 minutes ahead of the Richards service.

The T1 has major problems today as a RTC (2 car head on collision) closed the A485 between Windy Corner (Pencader) and Carmarthen

Therefore buses have had to divert from Pencader via Llanddysul (which was a surprise to many Llanddysul locals to see a regular bus service going past) then towards Newcastle Emlyn before heading back down the Carmarthen Cardigan road to Glangwili Hospital

I travelled on the 07:40 from Aberystwyth and only got there at 10:37
The 10:10 From Carmarhen was only just leaving when we got to the Railway Station. Although the 11:10 did leave on time using the 09:10 departure bus which had been abandoned within the bus station

 

[Rhydgaled]

The T1 has major problems today as a RTC (2 car head on collision) closed the A485 between Windy Corner (Pencader) and Carmarthen

Therefore buses have had to divert from Pencader via Llanddysul (which was a surprise to many Llanddysul locals to see a regular bus service going past) then towards Newcastle Emlyn before heading back down the Carmarthen Cardigan road to Glangwili Hospital

I travelled on the 07:40 from Aberystwyth and only got there at 10:37
The 10:10 From Carmarhen was only just leaving when we got to the Railway Station. Although the 11:10 did leave on time using the 09:10 departure bus which had been abandoned within the bus station

Thanks for the information. I thought it might be something like that, I've been on buses that have had to make lengthy diversions due to RTCs in the past.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

The T1 has major problems today as a RTC (2 car head on collision) closed the A485 between Windy Corner (Pencader) and Carmarthen

Therefore buses have had to divert from Pencader via Llanddysul (which was a surprise to many Llanddysul locals to see a regular bus service going past) then towards Newcastle Emlyn before heading back down the Carmarthen Cardigan road to Glangwili Hospital

I travelled on the 07:40 from Aberystwyth and only got there at 10:37
The 10:10 From Carmarhen was only just leaving when we got to the Railway Station. Although the 11:10 did leave on time using the 09:10 departure bus which had been abandoned within the bus station

you should've caught the 701 like I did... we got into carmarthen at 10am! lol

 

[burns20]

T5 to start in the New Year:

PG0005878/53 - WILLIAM J M RICHARDS & PARTNERS T/A RICHARD BROS, MOYLGROVE GARAGE, PENTOOD INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, CARDIGAN, SA43 3AG

Variation Accepted: Operating between Cardigan, Finch Square and Aberystwyth Bus Station given service number T5 effective from 05-Jan-2015. To amend Timetable.


PG0005878/59 - WILLIAM J M RICHARDS & PARTNERS T/A RICHARD BROS, MOYLGROVE GARAGE, PENTOOD INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, CARDIGAN, SA43 3AG

Variation Accepted: Operating between Aberaeron and Aberystwyth given service number T5 effective from 05-Jan-2015. To amend Timetable.

PG0005878/62 - WILLIAM J M RICHARDS & PARTNERS T/A RICHARD BROS, MOYLGROVE GARAGE, PENTOOD INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, CARDIGAN, SA43 3AG

Registration AcceptedStarting Point: FISHGUARD SQUAREFinish Point: PEMBS COLLEGE, CARODOGS WELL ROADService Number: T5Service Type: Normal StoppingEffective Date: 05-JAN-2015Other Details: MONDAY TO SATURDAY INCLUSIVE

PG0005878/63 - WILLIAM J M RICHARDS & PARTNERS T/A RICHARD BROS, MOYLGROVE GARAGE, PENTOOD INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, CARDIGAN, SA43 3AG

Registration AcceptedStarting Point: CARDIGAN, FINCH SQUAREFinish Point: FISHGUARD SQUAREService Number: T5Service Type: Normal StoppingEffective Date: 05-JAN-2015Other Details: MONDAY TO SATURDAY INCLUSIVE

 

[Rhydgaled]

T5 to start in the New Year:

PG0005878/53 - WILLIAM J M RICHARDS & PARTNERS T/A RICHARD BROS, MOYLGROVE GARAGE, PENTOOD INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, CARDIGAN, SA43 3AG

Variation Accepted: Operating between Cardigan, Finch Square and Aberystwyth Bus Station given service number T5 effective from 05-Jan-2015.

Council and WAG minister not listening then? I try to tell them Aberystwyth-Cardigan is three different routes and should have three different numbers and what do we get: a blanket T5 number. Doubt we'll see an end to the confusion with passengers for Aberporth/Blaenporth/Blaenannarch any time soon then. Or are there registrations for X50/550 as well? And as for Winckler's advice about journey times, that is blown out of the water completely by the idea of running from Cardigan to Haverfordwest via Fishguard. TrawsCymru? OgwmpasCymru more like.

So four registrations, Aberystwyth-Cardigan, Aberystwyth-Aberaeron, Cardigan-Fishguard and Fishguard-Haverfordwest. Wonder why there is no Aberaeron-Cardigan? At least Richards Bros seems to have won the contract though. Anyone know if the timetable has changed at all from the original ITT?

 

[Bwsbro]

Streetlite demonstrator ERZ2028 with Richards Bros. Seen today in Aberaeron operating the 17:10 from Aberystwyth

Could this be a sign of what is to come on the T5???

 

[WelshBuses93]

Ah, the 10.8 DF Streetlite. There is a 11.5 MAX variant also.
Wonder how come the T2 hasn't shown on the TrawsCymru webstie yet? :/

 

[Rhydgaled]

Rather strange suituation at Aberystwyth bus station earlier today.

When I got there a Mid Wales Travel Enviro was in stand 7. After a while, I was supprised to see the LED route number on the back light up with 'T1'. So MWT vehicles are being used on the T1? I thought. But then a TrawsCymru-liveried Envrio 300 arrived on the slightly late inbound T1 service.

Wasn't around long enough, since a bus pulled up with '03' on the display to take me to university. To my supprise though, it wasn't the normal green vehicle but MWT's red double-decker. I hadn't used it before and was rather supprised when I hit my head on the roof (on the top deck). Despite the lack of headroom, the legroom was actually sufficient to accomadate my knees, supprisingly. The green 03 bus arrived as we were pulling out of the bus station but we on the double-deck didn't go via the national library along the correct 03 route (presumably the bus-only gate doesn't know about the double-decker). My head made contact with the roof again on the way off the bus.

Ah, the 10.8 DF Streetlite. There is a 11.5 MAX variant also.
Wonder how come the T2 hasn't shown on the TrawsCymru webstie yet? :/

Were there two Streetlites at Richards then? Or are you just saying that there is a MAX variant available, not that Richards were using one?

The council have finally replied to some of the e-mails I sent them and they said there won't be a Sunday service on the T5. That, and some of the other things they said, doesn't tie up with the ITT timetable so I've asked the for an updated version.

As for the T2, I guess it is because the vehicles don't say 'TrawsCymru' on them. The ones used on the T3 now have little 'TrawsCymru' stickers, and of course will have the full livery in a few months time once the new vehicles arrive.

 

[WelshBuses93]

Fair point, KARLH68 from Flickr did mention that another Optare Versa may be on the way, up to 'TrawsCymru' standard for their full T2 service.
Yes, the new T3 buses will arrive around Spring time. In my opinion, should be 3 x Enviro400 double deckers, 1 x Enviro300 (for the additional trips) and 2 x Enviro200's (1 could of been used for the 16:00 Wrexham>Barmouth and the 18:55 Barmouth>Wrexham and both could be used for the Sunday service).
No no mate, just mentioning about the MAX variant. Only 1 at Richards Brothers. Sorry for the confusion

 

[Bwsbro]

Rather strange suituation at Aberystwyth bus station earlier today.

When I got there a Mid Wales Travel Enviro was in stand 7. After a while, I was supprised to see the LED route number on the back light up with 'T1'. So MWT vehicles are being used on the T1? I thought. But then a TrawsCymru-liveried Envrio 300 arrived on the slightly late inbound T1 service.

Wasn't around long enough, since a bus pulled up with '03' on the display to take me to university. To my supprise though, it wasn't the normal green vehicle but MWT's red double-decker. I hadn't used it before and was rather supprised when I hit my head on the roof (on the top deck). Despite the lack of headroom, the legroom was actually sufficient to accomadate my knees, supprisingly. The green 03 bus arrived as we were pulling out of the bus station but we on the double-deck didn't go via the national library along the correct 03 route (presumably the bus-only gate doesn't know about the double-decker). My head made contact with the roof again on the way off the bus.

Were there two Streetlites at Richards then? Or are you just saying that there is a MAX variant available, not that Richards were using one?

The council have finally replied to some of the e-mails I sent them and they said there won't be a Sunday service on the T5. That, and some of the other things they said, doesn't tie up with the ITT timetable so I've asked the for an updated version.

As for the T2, I guess it is because the vehicles don't say 'TrawsCymru' on them. The ones used on the T3 now have little 'TrawsCymru' stickers, and of course will have the full livery in a few months time once the new vehicles arrive.

The red double decker was operating a duplication of the 03 service. Normally between the Bus Station and Campus only. This has been a common sight since the University amended the timetable to a half hourly Service

 

[WelshBuses93]

The Scania Omnilink that G.H.A. Coaches own has received TrawsCymru livery and also the double deckers are to be Scania's, presumably Scania N230UD with Alexander Dennis Enviro400 bodywork and an Alexander Dennis single deck, not sure whether it'll be an Enviro200 or Enviro300 with Scania K230UB chassis.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gha-group-photos/15813090337/

 

[WelshBuses93]

Timetable for the T5 is now up on Richards website.
http://www.richardsbros.co.uk/_cms/app/web/upload/file/TrawsCymru-Timetable-T5-Timetable_WEB-1.pdf

 

[Rhydgaled]

Timetable for the T5 is now up on Richards website.
http://www.richardsbros.co.uk/_cms/app/web/upload/file/TrawsCymru-Timetable-T5-Timetable_WEB-1.pdf

Indeed it is up, and it is completely barmy. Why the blanket application of the T5 number on six different routes? I can only think it has been done so that they can claim an hourly service, ignoring the consequences. And there are additional jouneys betweeen Aberaeron and Cardigan, via all three of the route variations, which retain the X50 designation. And who thought branding Cardigan to Haverfordwest via Fishguard (or Cardigan-Aberaeron via New Quay and Aberporth for that matter) could be branded as anything other than a local service? Absolutlely bonkers.

Apart from the blanket route numbering, it is again a great improvement in terms of local services, but as I've said before it makes no sense as a TrawsCymru route. Unless of course TrawsCymru is to be expanded to cover all bus services in Wales except town services, but then why bother with the T5 number?

 

[WelshBuses93]

I'm not sure really to be fair. I think they'll only expand TrawsCymru on trunk routes i.e. the X50/2 between Wrexham and Rhyl or the X75 between Shrewsbury and Llanidloes, with a possible extension to Aberystwyth via Llangurig. But I can definitely see the Wrexham to Rhyl service becoming part of the TrawsCymru network, but with a mixture of single and twin deck buses. Wonder what will the new vehicles be on the T5.

 

[DaveHarries]

Timetable for the T5 is now up on Richards website.
http://www.richardsbros.co.uk/_cms/app/web/upload/file/TrawsCymru-Timetable-T5-Timetable_WEB-1.pdf

Interesting to see that there is an 0215hrs departure from Haverfordwest Rail Station to Newport Square. I wonder:

a) what would be the point in running this trip?
b) where they will get the vehicle: there is no late-night trip the other way.

Dave

 

[Rhydgaled]

I think they'll only expand TrawsCymru on trunk routes i.e. the X50/2 between Wrexham and Rhyl or the X75 between Shrewsbury and Llanidloes, with a possible extension to Aberystwyth via Llangurig.

Not sure about the X75, but their intention seems to be to concentrate on trunk routes:

• T6 Wrexham - Ruthin - Denbigh - Rhyl
• T7 Carmarthen - Llandovery - Brecon - Abergavenny
• T8 Newtown - Welshpool - Oswestry - Wrexham

The T5, and T9 don't seem to fit in. T9 is too short and T5 is too local although that is assuming the T7 and T8 would follow fairly direct routes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interesting to see that there is an 0215hrs departure from Haverfordwest Rail Station to Newport Square. I wonder:

a) what would be the point in running this trip?
b) where they will get the vehicle: there is no late-night trip the other way.

Dave

It's been on the 412 timetable for years, and I don't know how it is resourced either. Sunday mornings only I believe, then nothing the entire rest of the day on Sundays. Another hangover from the 412 timetable is the schooldays only service that terminates at Trecwn, despite the fact that Trecwn has been dropped from the school holidays version of the service, which goes through to Haverfordwest, and that bus (I think) goes back to Fishguard out of service after terminating at Trecwn.

 

[WelshBuses93]

I suppose the T6 will operate on a commercial basis by G.H.A. Coaches from their Ruthin depot, as it does now with the X50 (Wrexham - Ruthin - Denbigh) and X52 (Denbigh - Rhyl). Service is quite popular with certain journeys operated by twin deck buses, 2 ex London Volvo B7TL/ Plaxton President's and 5 single deck Volvo B7RLE/ Wrightbus Eclipse's.
Personally, the T9 should of been Swansea to Hereford via Neath, Ystradgynlais, Sennybridge, Brecon and Hay-on-Wye.
Years back, the X75 did operate with 3 Optare Tempo X1200's, but not up to TrawsCambria standard and offered connections with TrawsCambria 704, when it was operated by Tanat Valley Coaches, now we see the service operated by Celtic Travel using 3 Volvo B7RLE/ Wrightbus Eclipse 2's and an Alexander Dennis Enviro300 and has limited connections with the T4. The proposed T8, (X71/71) does provide connections with the T4 at Newtown. Newtown and Welshpool residents could then have the advantage to travel to Barmouth or Rhyl from Wrexham once upgraded as this service only operates Newtown to Oswestry via Montgomery and Welshpool.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I suppose the T6 will operate on a commercial basis by G.H.A. Coaches from their Ruthin depot, as it does now with the X50 (Wrexham - Ruthin - Denbigh) and X52 (Denbigh - Rhyl). Service is quite popular with certain journeys operated by twin deck buses, 2 ex London Volvo B7TL/ Plaxton President's and 5 single deck Volvo B7RLE/ Wrightbus Eclipse's.
Personally, the T9 should of been Swansea to Hereford via Neath, Ystradgynlais, Sennybridge, Brecon and Hay-on-Wye.
Years back, the X75 did operate with 3 Optare Tempo X1200's, but not up to TrawsCambria standard and offered connections with TrawsCambria 704, when it was operated by Tanat Valley Coaches, now we see the service operated by Celtic Travel using 3 Volvo B7RLE/ Wrightbus Eclipse 2's and an Alexander Dennis Enviro300 and has limited connections with the T4. The proposed T8, (X71/71) does provide connections with the T4 at Newtown. Newtown and Welshpool residents could then have the advantage to travel to Barmouth or Rhyl from Wrexham once upgraded as this service only operates Newtown to Oswestry via Montgomery and Welshpool.

I would have thought the T8 would use the X75 route between Newtown and Welshpool, not via Montgomery which would probably be slower. I agree that Swansea-Hereford might be a good route but Hay-On-Wye and Neath would be fairly sizable detours and perhaps not a good idea. The Cardiff Airport Express should be removed from TrawsCymru and renumbered something like CAE.

I would suggest the following network:

• TC0 Bangor - Caernarfon - Porthmadog - Dollgellau - Machynlleth - Aberystwyth
• TC1 Aberystwyth - Aberaeron - Lamepter - Carmarthen (reduced to every 2hrs and removing Pencader)
• TC2 Welshpool - Oswestry - Wrexham (and possibly north to Mold/Fflint and south to Newtown/Llanidloes/Aberystwyth)
• TC3 Wrexham - Llangollen - Bala - Dolgellau - Barmouth
• TC4 Newtown - Llandrindod Wells - Builth Wells - Brecon - Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff
• TC5 Aberystwyth - Aberaeron - Cardigan (extending to one of Fishguard, Haverfordwest, Tenby or Whitland)
• TC6 Lampeter - Llandovery - Brecon - Abergavenny (possibly extending west to Aberaeron/New Quay)
• TC7 Wrexham - Ruthin - Rhyl
• TC8 Swansea - Morriston - Ystradgynlais - Sennybridge - Brecon (possibly continuing to Hereford)
• TC9 Pembroke/Pembroke Dock express to Carmarthen, then on to either Llandeilo/Llandovery or Ammanford.

Complimenting the TC1 and TC5 routes would be local and/or TrawsCymruConnect services as follows:

• 550 Aberystwyth/Aberaeron - New Quay - Aberporth - Cardigan - Fishguard - Haverfordwest
• 50 Aberystwyth/Aberaeron - New Quay - Cardigan - Fishguard - Haverfordwest
• 412 Cardigan/Goodwick - Fishguard - Trecwn - Haverfordwest (limited service)
• 40/40c Aberystwyth-Aberaeron-Lampeter-Pencader-Carmarthen
• Llandysul - Pencader - Carmarthen
• Or, instead of the TC9 above, a TrawsCymruConnect service from Carmarthen to either Llandovery or Ammanford, which leaves the TC9 slot free for one other TrawsCymru route.

 

[WelshBuses93]

Good point about the T8 to operate Newtown to Welshpool via the X75 service. Perhaps they could divert the service from Berriew to provide a more direct service. The 71 (Newtown - Montgomery - Welshpool) would connect the T8 in Welshpool and the X71 (Welshpool - Oswestry) can then transfer to the T8 and they could extend it further to Mold via Caergwrle Railway Station. Mold is quite a nice town with attractions across e.g. Bailey Hill, Loggerheads Country Park & Moel Famau summit (5 miles from Mold), Theatr Clwyd and a museum. For vehicles, I would suggest going for Optare Versa V1170's.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

[*]TC6 Lampeter - Llandovery - Brecon - Abergavenny (possibly extending west to Aberaeron/New Quay)

[/LIST]

We've covered this before. There is virtually NOTHING between Lampeter and Llandovery which is immediately apparent. I could mention the old S52/X52 but I'm not going over old ground. Rather than sit doing things "desktop", I suggest you go and actually travel on some of the current routes to understand the actual traffic flows.

The actual proposal for Carmarthern - Llandeilo - Llandovery - Brecon makes a lot more sense (although I think the logical end point is Hereford rather than Abergavenny). However, you could easily have the Carmarthen to Abergavenny, and the Swansea to Hereford (combining the X63 and 39).

Also, Hay on Wye is not a "sizeable detour". It's an extra 1.5 miles and you would do that to serve the only sizeable place between Hereford and Brecon. Pencader is a similar case in point. Whilst it might be desirable to speed up services as much as possible, there is no point in missing out some of the larger traffic sources in what is otherwise intensely rural territory. It doesn't make sense - sorry!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Which of my four proposed routes for the TC5 south of Cardigan does anyone think is best? Here's a list of possible pros and cons, anyone have anything to add?

Fishguard
Pros

• Ability to operate through to Fishguard Harbour and provide decent rail connections there at last
• Relatively good facilities for connections at Fishguard Harbour
• Possible connection with ferry to/from Ireland

Cons

• Perhaps not such a strategic destination as the others
• Passengers on regular local service Newport-Fishguard-Haverfordwest would have to change at Fishguard in the hours TrawsCymru service runs

Haverfordwest
Pros

• Serves Haverfordwest, probably the most strategiclly important settlement
• Possible train connections at Haverfordwest

Cons

• Recent toilet renovation at Haverfordwest station is pretty dire (a stainless steel bowl with no seat if I recall correctly)
• Mountainious route with very low intermediate population and which current has no bus service, might require highest subsidy

Tenby
Pros

• Possiblity of serving Clunderwen and Tenby railway stations, maybe Narberth too but would impact on through journies.

Cons

• Probably a higher-subsidy option than the Fishguard option
• Railway stations served have no facilities for interchange
• Serving two or three stations would make connections rather difficult
• Would require significant modification to 430 local service, to connect at Crymych

Whitland
Pros

• All train services to/from Pembrokeshire stop at Whitland

Cons

• Whitland station has no interchange facilities
• Probably a higher-subsidy option than the Fishguard option, and 430 service would need to remain in full so more subsidy there too

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed it is up, and it is completely barmy. Why the blanket application of the T5 number on six different routes? I can only think it has been done so that they can claim an hourly service, ignoring the consequences. And there are additional jouneys betweeen Aberaeron and Cardigan, via all three of the route variations, which retain the X50 designation. And who thought branding Cardigan to Haverfordwest via Fishguard (or Cardigan-Aberaeron via New Quay and Aberporth for that matter) could be branded as anything other than a local service? Absolutlely bonkers.

Apart from the blanket route numbering, it is again a great improvement in terms of local services, but as I've said before it makes no sense as a TrawsCymru route. Unless of course TrawsCymru is to be expanded to cover all bus services in Wales except town services, but then why bother with the T5 number?

Clearly, they're looking to combine these services to provide long distance links that weren't previously available. Remember, before 2005, there were only 1 or 2 701s from Aber south to Carmarthen - most were actually separate services.

Given that Aber to HWest is over 70 miles long, then it's hardly "local". Yes, there's local traffic but clearly the objective is to highlight the capability to make longer distance journeys.

Also, if you have six different routes, does having 6 different service numbers make things more clear? I'd suspect not but then we risk having the same conversation on two different threads (both of which you started )
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which of my four proposed routes for the TC5 south of Cardigan does anyone think is best? Here's a list of possible pros and cons, anyone have anything to add?

The route that the T5 will take is the most obvious and sensible.

The current 412 reflects the established travel patterns and links the major traffic objectives.

 

[Rhydgaled]

We've covered this before. There is virtually NOTHING between Lampeter and Llandovery which is immediately apparent.

I know, we've covered it, but I still think that gap between Lampeter and Llandovery looks rather odd if you have the Carmarthen - Llandeilo - Llandovery - Brecon route instead. I suppose it is a similar argument to the Haverfordwest question though, nothing much to stop at in between Cardigan and Haverfordwest or between Lampeter and Llandovery.

Also, Hay on Wye is not a "sizeable detour". It's an extra 1.5 miles and you would do that to serve the only sizeable place between Hereford and Brecon. Pencader is a similar case in point. Whilst it might be desirable to speed up services as much as possible, there is no point in missing out some of the larger traffic sources in what is otherwise intensely rural territory. It doesn't make sense - sorry!

Ok, I've had another look and maybe Hay-On-Wye isn't too bad compared to New Quay which is quite a few more extra miles and costs 20 minutes. Pencader though I think is smaller than Llandysul which I think has nothing except Bwcabus and the one 551 each way on college days only. If you note what I said above, the TC1 would only be every 2hrs and the 40/40c will still serve Pencader in the other hours, and in the hours the TC1 works there would be a Llandysul-Pencader-Carmarthen service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Given that Aber to HWest is over 70 miles long, then it's hardly "local". Yes, there's local traffic but clearly the objective is to highlight the capability to make longer distance journeys.

Also, if you have six different routes, does having 6 different service numbers make things more clear? I'd suspect not but then we risk having the same conversation on two different threads (both of which you started )

The route that the T5 will take is the most obvious and sensible.

The current 412 reflects the established travel patterns and links the major traffic objectives.

The six T5 routes are the most obvious and sensible, as local services. The scale of the detours make it utterly hopeless as a long-distance service. The detours are put in to enable local journies but kill it as a long-distance service, therefore it is a local service. If the weather is fine nobody with any choice would use the 412 to get from Cardigan to Haverfordwest, except perhaps bus enthusiasts. When I use it most passengers from Cardigan get off at Newport or Fishguard and a completely different set of passengers board. The Winckler review said no TrawsCymru service should be more than 50% slower than driving, Cardigan to Haverfordwest is almost 100% slower (over that if on a via Trecwn journey, but there are alot less of those in the T5 timetable). Even Aberystwyth to Cardigan via New Quay is over 60% slower, not TrawsCymru material.

And there is a problem with my two threads, but I do think having multiple service numbers would be less confusing. The majority of workings are on just two of the six routes, and one of the others (workings avoiding Mathry Road) only exists on short workings between Cardigan and Haverfordwest.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I know, we've covered it, but I still think that gap between Lampeter and Llandovery looks rather odd if you have the Carmarthen - Llandeilo - Llandovery - Brecon route instead. I suppose it is a similar argument to the Haverfordwest question though, nothing much to stop at in between Cardigan and Haverfordwest or between Lampeter and Llandovery.

Ok, I've had another look and maybe Hay-On-Wye isn't too bad compared to New Quay which is quite a few more extra miles and costs 20 minutes. Pencader though I think is smaller than Llandysul which I think has nothing except Bwcabus and the one 551 each way on college days only. If you note what I said above, the TC1 would only be every 2hrs and the 40/40c will still serve Pencader in the other hours, and in the hours the TC1 works there would be a Llandysul-Pencader-Carmarthen service.

No, you're not getting it. Lampeter to Llandovery has no villages in between it but there's no natural traffic flows either. I've just spent the weekend in Llandovery, and I know a few people there and they look to Brecon or to Carmarthen/Swansea. Somewhere like Brecon to Merthyr doesn't have many villages BUT it does have natural traffic flows, same as Cardigan to HWest. Some services have local traffic, some have end to end traffic, some have a mix of both - Lampeter to Llandovery has little traffic of any description.

Ask yourself, where do people in Lampeter travel to and why? That is what dictates where buses go, NOT gaps in a map.

I did note what you said for for the T1/40. What you propose is a reduction of frequency to increase speed. In an intensely rural county, you need as many passengers as possible and effectively halving the frequency will lose more people than the extra speed will attract. When Arriva removed the X40 from some smaller villages, it made sense but removing it from Pencader doesn't.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I did note what you said for for the T1/40. What you propose is a reduction of frequency to increase speed.

Where is the reduction of frequency? Did I miss something? I did not intend anywhere having fewer services than now. The only reduction would be journeys between Lampeter and Pencader, but the Llandysul-Carmarthen service would ensure that Pencader still gets the same number of services, just some of the northbound ones would go to Llandysul instead of Lampeter.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Where is the reduction of frequency? Did I miss something? I did not intend anywhere having fewer services than now. The only reduction would be journeys between Lampeter and Pencader, but the Llandysul-Carmarthen service would ensure that Pencader still gets the same number of services, just some of the northbound ones would go to Llandysul instead of Lampeter.

Apologies, I should've been clearer - that was what I meant - through journeys over the whole route.

There is another way to look at it. If you wish to do these things, and to undertake a very simple cost benefit analysis, what you need to understand (and being a detailed and analytical soul, I would assume you've done these already)

• How many vehicles does the current service require?
• How many vehicles would your new proposal require?
• How much spend would that entail and, as a result, how many additional passengers would you have to attract to cover that increased cost?

Then you know if the stops vs. speed ratio works!

Please don't base anything on the Winkler report. It's embarrassing in it's lack of detail - she didn't even do what I have suggested above!