TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[WestyAds]

There seems to be a certain amount of discontent from some passengers on the new 40, who seem convinced the whole operation is a complete disaster and that the X40 will be "back within six months". Whilst I'd say it's not been the most resounding success so far, it's early days yet and obviously things will take a while to bed down. Each of the three journeys I've made from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen have been less than ten minutes late at most, with each of the return journeys managing to hit the 1 hour 55 minute target on the button.

Mind you, if we are to believe anecdotal evidence from a very vocal group of pensioners who boarded at Lampeter yesterday, I've been lucky, as they claimed that three buses in a row hadn't turned up at all on Tuesday (this, I have to say, I found a little hard to believe - I think some of them may have been thrown by the bus stop changes there, as services now use the other side of the road and don't go past the Co-op) They seem to be under the impression that the best way to deal with these changes is to hurl abuse at the driver, which is an interesting strategy (although he wasn't exactly being polite or helpful in his responses, which didn't help).

Several of the "40" buses I've seen this week have been helpfully running around with "X40" on the display, which really isn't helping matters any. Given Arriva's nasty habit of making changes to its local services in Aber every few months, some people at my stop were suggesting that they're already gearing up to dump all of the changes, which, whilst being quite a ridiculous idea, does rather reinforce the mountain Arriva has to climb by way of getting people on-side with these latest services.

 

[trawscymru27]

The new timetable for the T4 has (finally!) appeared on Traveline Cymru. Still no mention on the Powys or Stagecoach websites, though.

http://planner.traveline-cymru.info/pdfs/timetables/PWBT004.pdf#page=1

There are the same number of buses to Newtown, a few more to Brecon, though the main change is the re-numbering of X4 Merthyr shorts to T4 (a contentious issue when there are so many cuts to other services for the WAG to be funding new buses for a service which already has good buses). Overall, slightly underwhelming in my opinion, especially as the last Cardiff - Newtown leaves at 1420.

 

[anthony263]

I thought this piece of information about service 40 may interest a couple of you.

Currently until registrations with VOSA are sorted Arriva are having to run 06:55 & 07:20 Carmarthen - Aberystwyth services as they wanted to provide an arrival into Aberystwyth before 09:00 although it does look possible that the 06:55 could be getting re-timed to leave at 06:50.

Remarks have been made on some sites about timekeeping and a manager from Arriva has taken note and is looking into it.

 

[Derlwyn]

There does seem to be a problem with late running on Cymru Express. I took two return journeys, Saturday and today, and two of the four legs each ran 15 minutes late.

I don't want to knock Arriva and you have to support them for wanting to run an unsubsidised service and make it pay. But hope those new buses with the coach seats arrive on time.:roll:

PS. What's the idea with double deckers? I can't think I've ever been on an X40/50 bus which was too full, so how will they fill double deckers?

 

[Rhydgaled]

A large number of Tempos still seem to be sat in the Arriva depot, didn't get a close look today so can't say how many exactly. Any sign of the new buses ordered for TrawsCymru 1 (Carmarthen - Aberystwyth) anywhere yet, and have all 6 new Tempos for T4/TC4 been delivered.

There does seem to be a problem with late running on Cymru Express. I took two return journeys, Saturday and today, and two of the four legs each ran 15 minutes late.

Traffic Commissioners have indicated that they expect all bus operators to run their services reliably. This means that you must run your service no more than 1 minute early and no more than 5 minutes late for 95% of the time.

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to inform VOSA of the late runnings on service 40. Maybe then we can have a non-commertial operator (or at least one that doesn't change their timetable so often, and can keep to it) so the X50 can once again connect with the 40/X40/TC1 or (even better) run through to Aberystwyth all day.

PS. What's the idea with double deckers? I can't think I've ever been on an X40/50 bus which was too full, so how will they fill double deckers?

Ever taken a 16:10 from Aberystwyth (these are no more since the introduction of CymruExpress)? I quite frequently have sat on the luggage rack all the way to Aberaeron on the 16:10 X50. The 07:25 550 service from New Quay to Penglais school was standing room only by Aberystwyth quite often too, especially when a dart was used instead of a Tempo.

 

[anthony263]

The coaches for the service 20 services from Aberystwyth to Cardiff have been under test and should enter service soon if they haven't already.

The new deckers for service 40/50 will not be arriving until mid july and enter service from August.

I have been emailed some photos of the interiors of the 2 Van Hool T9's and nice to see that they are fitted with toilets and have nice looking seats

 

[Rhydgaled]

The coaches for the service 20 services from Aberystwyth to Cardiff have been under test and should enter service soon if they haven't already.

Coaches for service 20 under test? I thought both coaches for services 10&20 were cascaded existing vehicles, and were in service from day 1 of Arriva's new CymruExpress network. Did they order new coaches to replace the two cascaded ones?

The new deckers for service 40/50 will not be arriving until mid july and enter service from August.

I know that, I was asking about the six new buses WAG ordered for TrawsCymru service TC1 (Aberystwyth - Carmarthen) which I expect will be Optare Tempos similar the new ones for T4/TC4 (Newtown - Cardiff).

 

[IanCleverly]

The new timetable for the T4 has (finally!) appeared on Traveline Cymru. Still no mention on the Powys or Stagecoach websites, though.

http://planner.traveline-cymru.info/pdfs/timetables/PWBT004.pdf#page=1

There are the same number of buses to Newtown, a few more to Brecon, though the main change is the re-numbering of X4 Merthyr shorts to T4 (a contentious issue when there are so many cuts to other services for the WAG to be funding new buses for a service which already has good buses). Overall, slightly underwhelming in my opinion, especially as the last Cardiff - Newtown leaves at 1420.

I've just seen via the Traveline Cymru Up and coming changes page, that Sixty Sixty's 470 Brecon -> Merthyr Tydfil -> Cardiff service will not operate as of next Week (16th March onwards). What that be because of operating costs, or this 'T4'more or less replaces this service?

Forthcoming Service & Fare Changes

If you know of any forthcoming service and fare changes we are not reporting, please let us know by emailing feedback 'at' travelinecymru.info

Sixty Sixty Service 470

From Friday 16 March 2012, Sixty Sixty's service 470 will be withdrawn.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Can nobody answer my lastest batch of questions? To summarise:

• What does anthony mean saying coaches for service 20 are under test? Did Arriva order new coaches to replace the two cascaded coaches that worked the service from day 1 of CymruExpress?
• Have all 6 new Tempos for T4/TC4 (TrawsCymru Newtown - Cardiff) been delivered yet?
• Have any of the 6 new buses WAG ordered for TrawsCymru service TC1 (Aberystwyth - Carmarthen) appeared yet?
• And a new one, how come the Tempos from Arriva's X40 and 550 were left in Arriva's depot? I haven't seem them used since CymruExpress started, so Arriva probablly aren't allowed to use them, but if so how can they be trusted not to use them since they are all sat there seemingly ready for use?

 

[anthony263]

Can nobody answer my lastest batch of questions? To summarise:

• What does anthony mean saying coaches for service 20 are under test? Did Arriva order new coaches to replace the two cascaded coaches that worked the service from day 1 of CymruExpress?
• Have all 6 new Tempos for T4/TC4 (TrawsCymru Newtown - Cardiff) been delivered yet?
• Have any of the 6 new buses WAG ordered for TrawsCymru service TC1 (Aberystwyth - Carmarthen) appeared yet?
• And a new one, how come the Tempos from Arriva's X40 and 550 were left in Arriva's depot? I haven't seem them used since CymruExpress started, so Arriva probablly aren't allowed to use them, but if so how can they be trusted not to use them since they are all sat there seemingly ready for use?

I meant the 2 cascaded coaches sorry.

I think at least 3 of the tempo's for service T4 Cardiff - Newtown have been delivered.

With regards to the tempo's originally ordered for services 550 & X40 I believe they are currently being stored until it is decided what to do with them.

There was talk of them being sent to whoever gets the contract for service
X63 Swansea - Brecon when the tender comes up this august.

I dont think anyone know's what has happened to the tempo's that were ordered for the TC1 Carmarthen - Aberystwyth once Arriva decided they were going to run the route commercially

 

[mbonwick]

Does anyone know the seating capacity of the new Tempos Stagecoach have for use on the T4?

 

[anthony263]

Does anyone know the seating capacity of the new Tempos Stagecoach have for use on the T4?

32-35 seats

 

[mbonwick]

Thanks. I'm guessing there are 3 tip ups in the wheelchair area then?

 

[anthony263]

Thanks. I'm guessing there are 3 tip ups in the wheelchair area then?

Yes there are 3 in the wheelchair bay

 

[Derlwyn]

Will we be getting the same specification of bus for Cymru express as Arriva are using for the Cymru coastliner service up in north wales? Those do look quite nice

 

[Rhydgaled]

I've seen some pics online of some of two of the three 704 Tempos now in the new TrawsCymru livery. While not a patch on their old TrawsCambria livery, it is a least a slight improvment over the livery on the six new Tempos (the version the old ones have been painted into doesn't have the silver, those parts are just white, and the livery looks better because of that).

In fact I've been playing around with photoshop and, take away the green lines with stop names on the white area, extend the green bit higher up (to level with where it is in front of the doors, following the lines of the bodywork) and move the WAG logo to where it was on the most of the TrawsCambria vehicles and it starts to look good.

Does anyone know when the six new vehicles for TC1 were due to appear? Maybe they are still going to appear from the factory when they were supposed to, even though they won't be put on their intended route as it has been commertialised by Arriva. I really hope they haven't made the mistake of not providing enough legroom with the new fleet, the original X40/550 Tempos just aren't good enough, the X50 pair of Tempos are the mark to aim for.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Does anybody have any updates? Earlier this week, I was passing the Arriva depot and counted all 11 Tempos, still stored. However as I passed one was driven out of the depot (turning right, so not going to the park avenue bus stop or the station to start a service) and today only 5 Tempos are still there (which include the two Cardiff ones). Where did the other six go?

I've attached my photoshoped improved version of TrawsCymru livery, what does anyone think?

 

[trawscymru27]

Spotted the following on the VOSA website this morning:

PG0007245/295 - ARRIVA CYMRU LTD T/A ARRIVA BUSES WALES, IMPERIAL BUILDINGS, GLAN Y MOR ROAD, LLANDUDNO JUNCTION, LL31 9RU

Variation Accepted: Operating between Aberystwyth Bus Station and Carmarthen Bus Station given service number X40/10/20/40/41/50/X41 effective from 03-Jun-2012. To amend Route and Timetable.

Looks like changes are needed - the predictions that the timetable would be unrealistic seem correct. I wonder what the route changes will be - my guess is that the 10 and 20 will no longer run through Pencader and Llanwnen.

Hope of interest.

 

[anthony263]

Does anybody have any updates? Earlier this week, I was passing the Arriva depot and counted all 11 Tempos, still stored. However as I passed one was driven out of the depot (turning right, so not going to the park avenue bus stop or the station to start a service) and today only 5 Tempos are still there (which include the two Cardiff ones). Where did the other six go?

I've attached my photoshoped improved version of TrawsCymru livery, what does anyone think?

That livery does actually look quiet good especially compared to what the WG came up with.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Spotted the following on the VOSA website this morning:

PG0007245/295 - ARRIVA CYMRU LTD T/A ARRIVA BUSES WALES, IMPERIAL BUILDINGS, GLAN Y MOR ROAD, LLANDUDNO JUNCTION, LL31 9RU

Variation Accepted: Operating between Aberystwyth Bus Station and Carmarthen Bus Station given service number X40/10/20/40/41/50/X41 effective from 03-Jun-2012. To amend Route and Timetable.

Looks like changes are needed - the predictions that the timetable would be unrealistic seem correct. I wonder what the route changes will be - my guess is that the 10 and 20 will no longer run through Pencader and Llanwnen.

Hope of interest.

Thanks for posting this update looks like what everyone has predicted on here has come true.

Too be honest I feel for the drivers trying to keep to the timings which must be stressful.

Also Arriva used a double decker on tuesday to work the 40 Aberystwyth - Carmarthen shame I decided for a valley lines day out instead.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Thanks for posting this update looks like what everyone has predicted on here has come true.

Shame VOSA didn't put a restriction on Arriva's licence that bars them from operating the route commertially as a penalty for not keeping to the no more than 5mins late 95% of the time rule.

Also Arriva used a double decker on tuesday to work the 40 Aberystwyth - Carmarthen shame I decided for a valley lines day out instead.

There was a double-decker (one of the old ones that work around Aberystwyth, not a brand new vehicle) on one of the 40 services I saw while at Carmarthen filming trains today.

Any news on the missing Tempo fleets?

 

[anthony263]

Shame VOSA didn't put a restriction on Arriva's licence that bars them from operating the route commertially as a penalty for not keeping to the no more than 5mins late 95% of the time rule.

There was a double-decker (one of the old ones that work around Aberystwyth, not a brand new vehicle) on one of the 40 services I saw while at Carmarthen filming trains today.

Any news on the missing Tempo fleets?

The locations of the Tempo's is still causing some issues.

The WG is supposed to be discussing what to do with the vehicles with there being some who want them to be sold off while others have suggested that they be used on other trawscymru routes such as the Swansea - Brecon and possible the Llandovery - Brecon service which would be extended to Abergavenny
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Seems some of the Optare Tempo's have moved on although to where I do not know at the moment however the following Tempo's were noted at the depot in Aberystwyth:

2860 YJ55 BKG
2863 YJ55 BKN
2865 YJ55 BKU
2868 YJ06 YRZ
2869 YJ06 YRO

 

[Rhydgaled]

The locations of the Tempo's is still causing some issues.

The WG is supposed to be discussing what to do with the vehicles with there being some who want them to be sold off while others have suggested that they be used on other trawscymru routes such as the Swansea - Brecon and possible the Llandovery - Brecon service which would be extended to Abergavenny
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Seems some of the Optare Tempo's have moved on although to where I do not know at the moment however the following Tempo's were noted at the depot in Aberystwyth:

2860 YJ55 BKG
2863 YJ55 BKN
2865 YJ55 BKU
2868 YJ06 YRZ
2869 YJ06 YRO

So those 5 are still in Aberystwyth then. I knew about 6 disappearing, one of the things I want to know is where did they go?

Personally I'd like the X40 Cardiff ones (YJ06 YRZ and YJ06 YRO I think) to be refurbished slightly (drop one row of ground-level seats on each side) to make the legroom on the ground-level seats match YJ55BKE and YJ55BKF and transfer these two to Richards Bros to make the X50 into a 2-hourly service from Aberystwyth to Goodwick (that needs 3 buses, which would be branded for the route. The other would carry a version of Richards' standard livery and run on 411/413/412 most of the time, but it would run the X50 if one of the dedicated vehicles needs maintenance or something, so three X50 diagrams are all run using X1260 Tempos even if one Tempo is out of action temporarily).

The other nine ex-Arriva Tempos should either be put on X94 and/or X94 or use to introduce new routes (either Swansea - Brecon or Aberystywth/Aberaeron - Lampeter - Llandovery - Brecon - Abergavenny). The reason for going from Aberystywth would be to allow it to run in the other hour to the 2-hourly X50 and hence allow an every-twenty minutes service between Aberaeron and Aberystywth. All depends on whether good connections at Aberaeron would be available for journeys between Lampeter and Cardigan in both directions if you did that.

 

[anthony263]

I can say there has been a lot of anger and frustration with the Optare Tempo's replacing the man/enviro 300's on the short workings on service X4/T4 between Merthyr Tydfil & Cardiff according to what has been reported on welsh bus news.

I my self have seen this recently following a trip to Cardiff where I saw some Optare tempo's leave Cardiff really packed with passengers standing.

In fact someone has said why didnt they perhaps order some of those wheelchair acessible plaxton Inbterurban coaches or even nick some of the double deck coaches from the oxford tube with some newer vehicles being ordered to replace them.

In fact I wouldnt mind doing service T4 on a neoplan skyliner or one of Stagecoach Van Hool double deck coaches recently introduced at Cwmbran for megabus services.

The Optare tempo's are certainly no good for such a long route such as service T4 in fact the original vehicles which were ordered for service X4 are much better (and thats saying something)

Here is an example of the buses which are still used on service X4 but have been replaced on teh Merthyr -Cardiff short workings:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52096824@N04/6918295634/in/photostream

I have travelled on one of these from Cardiff to Abergavenny via Merthyr Tydfil & Ebbw Vale and they are comfy unlike the Tempo I travelled on from Carmarthen to Mc Arthur Glen on service X40 a year or two ago.

Another problem with service T4 is the last through journey from Cardiff to Newtown is at 14:20 how about running a later service from Cardiff at around 17:20 which should get to Newtown at around 21:00

In fact Rhydgaled any chance you could try and do a photo shop image of one of Megabus buses van hool deckers or the oxford tube neoplan skyliners etc in a trawscymru livery?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
With regards to teh various complainst about teh suitability of teh Optare tempo's on such long distance services perhaps teh WG would have been better off looking at this:

http://www.plaxtonlimited.co.uk/plaxton/All_News_Items/press_releases/pr_219.html

It wopuld be ideal especially for service T4 as the Tempo's are really struggling between Merthyr Tydfil and Cardiff due to a reduction in seats compared to the previous vehicles and those used on service X4 and theTempo's seem to be useless are getting up some of the hill on the route.

 

[trawscymru27]

Arriva have put the new June timetables on their website. The 40 will now run directly to Carmarthen railway station southbound, and call at the bus station on its return to Aberystwyth. It has been given 2 hours for this slightly shorter journey, as opposed to the previous 1hr 56 mins including the bus station. The 41 has been given an extra 7 minutes for the journey. There are a few other minor timing changes.

Links:

10/20/40/50: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=17010

41: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=17011&r=Wales

Hope of interest.

 

[anthony263]

Thanks for the updates and I have noticed Arriva seem to be using one of their deckers on service 40 lately in fact I have got a pic of one at Carmarthen Bus station.

Surprising as I didnt think Double deckers would fit

 

[Rhydgaled]

I have noticed Arriva seem to be using one of their deckers on service 40 lately in fact I have got a pic of one at Carmarthen Bus station.

Surprising as I didnt think Double deckers would fit

You didn't think double deckers would fit where?

Arriva had a double decker or two on 550 before it was ditched. The new 40 and 50 services currently interwork 'diagrams' (not sure if that's the correct term when talking buses), so anything on 40 will probably also appear on 50 and vice versa.

 

[Derlwyn]

Arriva's revised timetable for the 40 looks OK to me. Personally, I'm still not too keen on the vehicles they are using, but overall it's a faster and more frequent service than the subsidised Trawscambria service that preceded it. So well done Arriva - anyone know if they're managing to make any money on the route?

Has anyone else noticed that the single decker vehicles have windows which blow open once the bus picks up speed? Not such a problem this time of year, but it did make them cold in winter. Also the double decker currently being used on the 40 route is really not suitable - grim bench-style seating upstairs and its struggles on the hills.

 

[anthony263]

You didn't think double deckers would fit where?

Arriva had a double decker or two on 550 before it was ditched. The new 40 and 50 services currently interwork 'diagrams' (not sure if that's the correct term when talking buses), so anything on 40 will probably also appear on 50 and vice versa.

The bit at Carmarthen bus staion which underneath the carpark/shops.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Don't forget WAG wanted to speed the X40/TC1 up by skipping villages too.

I think Transport consultant John Davies has it right here:

It’s rather sad, because the TrawsCymru network and connectors they were going to have would have created a joined-together network. Once you have a commercial service, they [the operator] will go for their objectives and not necessarily the ones of joining up Wales.

It’s a mess.

Arriva may have finally seen sense in timings for the 40 route, but four months too late. If there is a point in an Aberystwyth - Cardiff road service, it is right that it is now a coach service additional to the Aberystwyth - Carmarthen bus service. However, the national network lies in tatters. The best buses for the job (Optare Tempos, particular the X1260s) appear to be vanishing rather than being put to use expanding the network or upgrading X32 and X94, and because Arriva are commertial the X50 is stuck south of Aberaeron. Also, as seen here, the TrawsCymru plan was initally for services from 06:00 to 20:00 on both TC1 and TC4, not something Arriva have delivered with the 40 (which I don't think can reach Aberystwyth by 9am on weekdays, and not until 11am on Saturdays, unacceptable reductions).

I think Newtown - Cardiff is probably too long for toiletless vehicles (as was Aberystwyth - Cardiff), but there's a rail link from Carmarthen/Merthyr to Cardiff so a Tempo operated Newtown/Aberystwyth - Merthyr/Carmarthen should be alright provided the legroom is sufficient (though given WAG only ordered X1200s rather than X1260s, I doubt it is sufficient).

Oh, and I happened to catch the service 10 or 20 once. It was very late and one of the Pulsars was operating it rather than one of the coaches (every time I've seen it but not used it a coach has been on it though).

My opinion is the TrawsCambria brand should have been kept, with a fleet of Tempo X1260s (NOT Tempo SRs they aren't good looking) on the following routes, which would all run 7 days a week (reduced frequency on Sundays):

• TC0/X30 - Bangor/Caernarfon - Porthmadog - Dolgellau - Machynlleth/Aberystwyth (potentially terminating at Machynlleth one Aberystwyth has hourly rail service)
• TC1/X40 - Aberystwyth - Aberaeron - Lampeter - Pencader - Carmarthen
• TC2/X90 - Barmouth - Dolgellau - Bala - Corwen - Llangollen - Wrexham
• TC3/X60 - Aberystwyth - Aberaeron - Lampeter - Llandovery - Brecon/Abergavenny
• TC4/X70 - Newtown - Llandrindod Wells - Brecon - Merthyr Tydfil
• TC5/X55/X20 - Aberystwyth/Machynlleth - Aberaeron - New Quay
• TC6/X10 - Rhyl - Denbigh - Corwen/Newtown
• X50 Aberystwyth - Aberaeron - Cardigan - Fishguard - Goodwick/St. Davids

If you want to duplicate rail services, then I'd also have TrawsCymru as a small coach network. That'd have Aberystwyth - Cardiff, Newtown - Cardiff and perhaps Aberystwyth - Bangor and Barmouth - Wrexham (all about 2/3 each way per day), and limited stop. The Tempo services would be stop anywhere and everywhere, which is one reason why I wouldn't use coaches (coaches = seatbelts = no standing while in motion = no quick exists).

 

[Derlwyn]

I guess it's a case of we are where we are and maybe Trawscambria needs to be thought through again, maybe becoming more of an overall branding for a network of long distance bus routes, some subsidised and some run commercially.

I like the idea of an Aberystwyth-Llandovery-Brecon route. Possibly this could run via Tregaron to Lampeter rather than via Aberaeron.

There are some other routes which would be worth recognising/developing as useful corridors. Veolia's Aberystwyth to Llandrindod, linking into the Sargeant Bros Llandrindod-Kington-Hereford service is one example.