Travelmasters crash M1

[tbtc]

If a train had collided with a car and people had died (which could mean car breaks down on level crossing or level crossing barriers don't work or car goes over level crossing despite half barriers being down) then any thread on here would quickly see messages about how we shouldn't jump to conclusions and we should wait for the RAIB report and all of the "armchair experts" should stop speculating until they know the facts (etc etc).

However, since it was a coach and a car apparently that allows us to speculate about what's happened, suggest that this collision means that buses/coaches aren't very safe (despite us not knowing what error was made and by whom), suggest that we can infer something about the suitability of "rail replacement" coaches...

I don't know what happened yesterday, I just think that it's far too easy to be drawing conclusions and that if this were a "rail" accident then anyone speculating about the driver being arrested would be quickly shot down by posters on here. Seems it's okay to do so when it's a coach driver though (?)

 

[Hadders]

That's the scheme on the M1 but the latest implementation is that now running on the M25 which runs without a hard shoulder by default at the NSL. So stopping on it can be very dangerous as tghe lane is usually carrying HGV traffic. Obviously control keep a watch out for stoppers, but when that happens there is a flow of traffic at full speed that quickly needs to be squeezed into lane 1. A recipe for disasters just like this. See my post #11 in this thread.

Ah yes, I drove round the northern bit of the M25 just this week where the motorway has been widened permanently by turning the hard shulder into a running lane.

Technically I don't think this is a managed motorway as they don't vary which lanes are open according to the traffic flow but there are overhead signs and CCTV so they can close off lanes if one becomes blocked.

In effect this bit of the M25 is the same as an all purpose dual carriageway which doesn't usually have a hard shoulder. It would have been far better if they'd widened the road in the proper way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Technically I don't think this is a managed motorway as they don't vary which lanes are open according to the traffic flow but there are overhead signs and CCTV so they can close off lanes if one becomes blocked.

It is a managed motorway, just without traditional hard shoulder running. That's how the bit of the M1 near Sheffield is going to be done, I believe.

Neil

 

[radamfi]

They have basically changed the terminology. The first scheme of this type was on the M42 and was called "Active Traffic Management". Subsequent schemes became known as "Managed Motorways". Nowadays the preferred term is "Smart Motorway". I think all new schemes from now on (and there are many) will have the hard shoulder permanently removed.

 

[deltic]

Ah yes, I drove round the northern bit of the M25 just this week where the motorway has been widened permanently by turning the hard shulder into a running lane.
It would have been far better if they'd widened the road in the proper way.

But the cost of doing that would be massive - even hard shoulder running doesnt come cheap

 

[radamfi]

The main reason for hard shoulder running or removing the hard shoulder is that widening can be done within the existing highway boundary. This removes the need for public inquiries and buying land.

 

[kylemore]

It may not be relevent to this tragic case however both PCV and LGV drivers are being increasingly worked to the absolute limits of legality resulting in lots of very tired drivers.

From my personal experience there is an ever upwards drift in shift length as employers in the Bus/Coach and Haulage industries try to squeeze as much out of every "work unit" as they possibly can within the legal limits.

These employers care little for safety as long as they're covered legally and therefore can dump responsibility on the hapless driver if and when things go wrong.

 

[Robertj21a]

It may not be relevent to this tragic case however both PCV and LGV drivers are being increasingly worked to the absolute limits of legality resulting in lots of very tired drivers.

From my personal experience there is an ever upwards drift in shift length as employers in the Bus/Coach and Haulage industries try to squeeze as much out of every "work unit" as they possibly can within the legal limits.

These employers care little for safety as long as they're covered legally and therefore can dump responsibility on the hapless driver if and when things go wrong.

As you say, probably totally irrelevant. If the law allows it then it's not surprising that managers will want to get the best out of their employees.

 

[Busaholic]

The coach driver who was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving has been released on unconditional police bail until sometime in May.

 

[kylemore]

As you say, probably totally irrelevant. If the law allows it then it's not surprising that managers will want to get the best out of their employees.

I didn't say "totally irrelevent" I said "May not be relevent".

"Getting the best" out of an employee is not neccesarrily the same as working them to the legal limits.

For instance 30MPH is the speed limit in built up areas - that doesn't mean it is always safe to be travelling at 30MPH or even that it should be seen as a target.

In many instances of these types of collisions, inattention due to tiredness up to even falling asleep at the wheel is often found to be the cause.

Of course whether this was a factor in the incident under discussion remains to be seen.

 

[Robertj21a]

I didn't say "totally irrelevent" I said "May not be relevent".

"Getting the best" out of an employee is not neccesarrily the same as working them to the legal limits.

For instance 30MPH is the speed limit in built up areas - that doesn't mean it is always safe to be travelling at 30MPH or even that it should be seen as a target.

In many instances of these types of collisions, inattention due to tiredness up to even falling asleep at the wheel is often found to be the cause.

Of course whether this was a factor in the incident under discussion remains to be seen.

Well your comment is certainly not relevant as none of us know the facts of this case.

There is nothing to stop a manager working an employee up to the legal limits. It is up to him/her to determine if that is the best way forward. A driver who is tired solely through activities away from work may still meet all legal requirements.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Well your comment is certainly not relevant as none of us know the facts of this case.

There is nothing to stop a manager working an employee up to the legal limits. It is up to him/her to determine if that is the best way forward. A driver who is tired solely through activities away from work may still meet all legal requirements.

Surely the legal limits are set where they are for a reason? that reason being that is what is considered safe? problem with driving hours isn't with the hours themselves... a driver is required to have a certain amount of daily/ weekly rest... but what's to say that the driver uses that time to rest?