Travelling past season ticket validity

[Spirit]

Hi

This has been bugging me for some time...advice please...

I've got a annual gold card which takes me from london zones to Clandon in Surrey. Quite often I go to Guildford from Clandon - no problem, just buy a ticket and get the discount.
However, I also pretty regularly go up to Claygate with family in car, and then go to Guildford from there.
If the ticket office is open at Cgate, no worries. But, fair enough, its not open in the evenings etc and so there's no way to get the ticket I need (the machines only dispensing tkts from Cgate of course)
I'm not about to spend even more of the salary on tickets I don't need and on the ticket machine it says if you can't get your ticket make the guard aware. If I see him/her I do-and most often they say 'explain it to the barrier staff at Guildford'.
OK with all of that, apart from the barriers at Gdfd are a way away from where the train terminates so what's to stop the staff there disbelieving me, not being able to speak to the guard, and charging me a PF (ie saying i got on at Clandon, you're trying it on, you could have bought a ticket from the machine)

How do I guarantee to myself that this won't happen?

Cheers

 

[MikeWh]

I don't think you can guarantee it, but if you're worried you could ask the guard for his name. If you are given a penalty fare then refuse to pay more than the normal fare which should have been charged at the time. This is perfectly acceptable and you have a set time (14 or 21 days I'm not certain) to pay the remainder. Write a letter giving details of the train (date, time, guard's name) and what was said as your reasons for appealing the PF. IANAL, nor is this legal advice, but I would be surprised if SWT let such a case get anywhere near to a court.

 

[island]

If there's a Permit to Travel machine at Claygate you could use that.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If the ticket office is closed, the ticket machine can't issue your intended ticket and there is not a permit to travel machine, or it is not in working order, you cannot be given a penalty fare. If there is a working permit to travel machine you should insert coins upto the value of your intended ticket and print the permit. This value will be deducted from the cost of your ticket when you have the opportunity to buy it.

 

[island]

I can see problems where someone has no coins whatsoever (or only coppers) and is boarding from a station with only a Permit to Travel machine, having money (in notes) or a card to pay for their ticket.

 

[cuccir]

If the machine doesn't take a reasonable form of payment - eg notes + most debit cards - then you wouldn't be given a PF for not getting a Permit to Travel, surely?

From the OP's point of view, my advice would be to try and remember to at least bring a 5p with you to get a permit to travel, if there is a machine at Claygate. As for the guard: I'd try being a little more demanding, if you can. If they really don't want to sell you the ticket, then I guess that you have no choice but to explain to staff. If they were to try and PF you, don't pay, and appeal: I can't see a case like this holding up. Making sure that you have a permit to travel, if possible, is a good start.

 

[MikeWh]

If you've only got notes and the only available machine for your ticket requirements was a PTT then they can't issue a PF.

 

[Spirit]

Many thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately Claygate has no Permit to Travel machines-I think most SWT stations lost them when penalty fares were introduced

So essentially - there is no guaranteed way to avoid problems, owing to a commercial decision by SWT to not offer me the opportunity to buy a ticket. Not particularly peeved by the decision to only open the ticket office for limited periods (and not when i travel), just the uncertainty. Which just doesn't seem right given that many people like me spend a small fortune on season tickets....

I will follow the advice re name badges and guards, thanks again

 

[wintonian]

Permit to travel machines were introduced from 1988 as part of the penalty fares scheme, I think.

However they have been made surplus to requirement due to the introduction of the newer Ticket XPress machines due these allowing passengers to buy a ticket to anywhere in the country. SWT have since found out or rather their passengers have that this is not the case and many destinations are in fact missing.

 

[island]

Well, there's at least one station in zone 3 with a PERTIS machine.

 

[The Colonel]

I think most SWT stations lost them when penalty fares were introduced

There isn't one at Horsley and I think the above is correct. Unfortunatley the Guards on the New Line services are very reluctant to leave the middle cab and don't bother checking tickets or patrolling the train in the way that Commercial Guards do. To see one walking through the train is rarer than a rare thing indeed, Baldrick.

It doesn't help you but don't think ther eis much you can do about it. Most of the booking offices on this line close at lunchtime.

 

[swt_passenger]

Wintonian is correct, PTT machines were still around SWT's stations until the Ticket Express machines were put in. SWT confirmed in a webchat that PTT machines would only be retained at stations with very low usage that didn't justify TVMs, because they had found that people were avoiding the TVMs and gambling on a PTT not being checked.

Millbrook and Redbridge are examples of stations without TVMs, however their PTT machines were still replaced with a new type, the red boxes familar to NSE passengers are all gone AIUI.

 

[clagmonster]

This is covered by the conditions of carriage:
"3. Where the full range of tickets is not available
If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because the
range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start your journey is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel that entitles you to make at least part of the journey. Then you must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, buy an appropriate ticket to complete your journey. In these circumstances, you only need to pay the fare that you would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your journey. The price you will have to pay will be reduced by the amount paid for the ticket or Permit to Travel."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

Your season pass covers part of the journey, so you should buy the remaining ticket a soon as possible. If the guard can't sell you the ticket (I believe that many South Western division guards aren't revenue trained) then that will be at Guildford unless a TTI is on board.

 

[northwichcat]

If you know when you're travelling in advance you could buy the ticket on a weekday or online for travel at the weekend.