Travelling beyond Oyster Zones & Doubling Back

[njr001]

Today I travelled from Rickmansworth via London Bridge to Knockholt using an Oyster card (with a railcard discount). One option on TFL Journey Planner was to take a fast train to Sevenoaks and the double back to KCK. I took this option, could I have been penalty fared or reported for prosecution between KCK and SEV or SEV and KCK despite having a TFL itinerary screen grabbed on my phone?

 

[Haywain]

Well, you didn’t have a ticket…

 

[JonathanH]

One option on TFL Journey Planner was to take a fast train to Sevenoaks and the double back to KCK. I took this option, could I have been penalty fared or reported for prosecution between KCK and SEV or SEV and KCK despite having a TFL itinerary screen grabbed on my phone?

While Sevenoaks is now in the range of Contactless validity, the Oyster area ends at Knockholt.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/oyster-conditions-of-use-on-national-rail-services.pdf

3.12 Oyster pay as you go may only be used on participating National Rail services entirely within the London National Rail Pay As You Go Area and in standard class accommodation only.

b) The “London National Rail Pay As You Go Area” means that area in which Oyster pay as you go is accepted as payment for travel on the National Rail Network;

Nothing in that document would appear to refer to an itinerary or a journey planner conferring additional rights.

 

[Watershed]

Today I travelled from Rickmansworth via London Bridge to Knockholt using an Oyster card (with a railcard discount). One option on TFL Journey Planner was to take a fast train to Sevenoaks and the double back to KCK. I took this option, could I have been penalty fared or reported for prosecution between KCK and SEV or SEV and KCK despite having a TFL itinerary screen grabbed on my phone?

The TfL journey planner doesn't state that Oyster is valid for a given journey, does it? It just states the PAYG fare for the stations you are travelling between.

You would have been valid to make the journey with this double-back if using contactless, as the contactless area of validity now extends to Sevenoaks. But not if using Oyster, since this is only valid as far as Knockholt.

 

[TrenHotel]

The TfL planner will sometimes give you services which don't fit in Oyster or the TfL fare system, like coaches or non-red buses - ask it for Heathrow to Uxbridge and it may give you the Arriva 724, for example.

 

[njr001]

Had I used contactless and my bank card was checked between KCN & SEV or as I doubled back would this have affected the contactless fare I would be charged between Rickmansworth & Knockholt?

 

[JonathanH]

Had I used contactless and my bank card was checked between KCN & SEV or as I doubled back would this have affected the contactless fare I would be charged between Rickmansworth & Knockholt?

No. The contactless fare is based solely on where you touch in and out, including touches on the way. Interchange at Sevenoaks does not involve passing through the barrier gates.

 

[Watershed]

Had I used contactless and my bank card was checked between KCN & SEV or as I doubled back would this have affected the contactless fare I would be charged between Rickmansworth & Knockholt?

No. With contactless revenue inspections, they are purely checking your card number to see if it's on TfL's list of blocked cards. A record is made of the fact that your card was inspected, and this is sent to TfL.

If TfL can see, when all your day's touches are reconciled by the system overnight, that you were touched in at the time of the inspection - hunky dorey. If you weren't, you'll be charged a maximum fare and get one "strike" towards the three strikes that will see your card blocked.

AFAIK, rhe location of the inspection isn't part of the data sent to TfL and indeed I would be surprised if the Oyster/contactless revenue inspection devices even know their current location when an inspection takes place between stations. Perhaps they're more sophisticated than I give them credit for!

In any event, even if TfL knew you were doubling back, that isn't against the rules for PAYG. You get charged based on where you start and end your journey. Intermediate touches/changes only make a difference if they mean you meet the criteria for a different fare than the 'default' fare (e.g. being charged for travelling via Zone 1).

There's only the default fare from Rickmansworth to Knockholt, so any intermediate touches won't make a difference to the fare - provided you remain within the maximum journey time.

 

[PeterC]

Whatever the theory a ticket inspection while outside the Oyster zones might involve a difficult conversation.

 

[MikeWh]

Whatever the theory a ticket inspection while outside the Oyster zones might involve a difficult conversation.

If using Oyster, yes. But the OP changed the criteria to using contactless.

 

[njr001]

Just to confirm I didn't use contactless because of Oystercard has a railcard added, I just asked whether there would be an issue IF contactless had been used. I also assume this is one of the few journeys where a doubling back is quicker. Hopefully not too long before a railcard discount can be added to a bankcard

 

[Haywain]

Hopefully not too long before a railcard discount can be added to a bankcard

Don't hold your breath.

 

[JonathanH]

I also assume this is one of the few journeys where a doubling back is quicker.

There are many journeys in the Oyster or Contactless area where doubling back is quicker. All you need is a station only served by stopping trains that is one stop short of a station which is served by faster ones.