Travellers

[passmore]

Oh, so it's the council and laws fault of local peoples' lives being made a misery is it? I thought I had read everything until i had read this!

But what have these specific travellers done, except leave behind vast amounts of rubbish? As someone said earlier in this thread, you're generalising all travellers as being vagrants without any morality whose sole purpose is to make local people's lives a misery. Aside from building a large site on illegal land and leave behind rubbish, what have they done exactly?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Oh, so it's the council and laws fault of local peoples' lives being made a misery is it? I thought I had read everything until i had read this!

He makes a valid point. It is not effective punishment for the crime, and nor does it actually solve the problem. It just moves the problem elsewhere. Perhaps if a council spent
a small fraction of their CEOs salary on getting electricity, running water and a sewage system (obviously not for free) into a field - rather like a very basic campsite - then this may go some way to stopping the litter and crime problem. If there is a crime then the perpetrators can be easily found and dealt with.

 

[GB]

Aside from building a large site on illegal land and leave behind rubbish, what have they done exactly?

Is that not enough for someone (traveller or not) to be brought to account?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

He makes a valid point. It is not effective punishment for the crime, and nor does it actually solve the problem. It just moves the problem elsewhere. Perhaps if a council spent
a small fraction of their CEOs salary on getting electricity, running water and a sewage system (obviously not for free) into a field - rather like a very basic campsite - then this may go some way to stopping the litter and crime problem. If there is a crime then the perpetrators can be easily found and dealt with.

I agree, there should be more legal places for travellers to pitch up.

 

[passmore]

Is that not enough for someone (traveller or not) to be brought to account?

Yes, but with effective punishment.

 

[Kernowfem]

He makes a valid point. It is not effective punishment for the crime, and nor does it actually solve the problem. It just moves the problem elsewhere. Perhaps if a council spent
a small fraction of their CEOs salary on getting electricity, running water and a sewage system (obviously not for free) into a field - rather like a very basic campsite - then this may go some way to stopping the litter and crime problem. If there is a crime then the perpetrators can be easily found and dealt with.

Agreed, a valid point! This problem needs to be addressed.

 

[mac]

He makes a valid point. It is not effective punishment for the crime, and nor does it actually solve the problem. It just moves the problem elsewhere. Perhaps if a council spent
a small fraction of their CEOs salary on getting electricity, running water and a sewage system (obviously not for free) into a field - rather like a very basic campsite - then this may go some way to stopping the litter and crime problem. If there is a crime then the perpetrators can be easily found and dealt with.

If you are putting all services on to a camp site why carn't they just get a house.If there is a crime and the police start looking round they just move so the police have no chance.

 

[GB]

Houses are alot more expensive for one thing.

 

[strange6]

But what have these specific travellers done, except leave behind vast amounts of rubbish? As someone said earlier in this thread, you're generalising all travellers as being vagrants without any morality whose sole purpose is to make local people's lives a misery. Aside from building a large site on illegal land and leave behind rubbish, what have they done exactly?

So it's ok to leave a public playing field full of rubbish, excrement, needles, dirty nappies is it (where children play) as well as destroying the land and footpaths with their vehicles? And then expect me to pay more council tax to clear it up! But then again, that's not being politically correct is it? This country has gone bonkers!
What we are dealing with here is a total lack of respect for local residents and people. They know the disadvantages and advantages to the life that they have choosen - nobody has forced them to live like this and it certainly does not provide the justification to leave public areas like this in a dangerous mess

 

[mac]

Houses are alot more expensive for one thing.

But as ae have already been told most of them are working.

 

[GB]

Im working and I can't afford a house, even living on my own.

Lets no forget its someones right or choice to live how they want (within the remit of the law that is) and I don't think that right of choice should be taken away.

 

[passmore]

So it's ok to leave a public playing field full of rubbish, excrement, needles, dirty nappies is it (where children play) as well as destroying the land and footpaths with their vehicles? And then expect me to pay more council tax to clear it up! But then again, that's not being politically correct is it? This country has gone bonkers!

I agree that the country has gone bonkers where the application of proper punishment for this type of thing is ineffective in the long-term, but if the council had spent just a fraction of their yearly salary dealing with this sort of thing, we wouldn't have excrement, needles or dirty nappies as big a problem as it is now. Then people like you come forward, rightly so, to complain about the inexcusable mess left behind, but don't you see, moving them on isn't the solution?
The council need to be a lot more pro-active, maybe with police help, in dealing with travellers. That's why I said earlier that the bottom line is that the fault lies with the council.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

But as ae have already been told most of them are working.

Or perhaps they may choose to live as travellers? Goodness me, what an original thought!

 

[mac]

Im working and I can't afford a house, even living on my own.

But do you live in a caravan in a field with no toilets

 

[GB]

Um no, but that is my choice just as it is theirs. I personally don't see the appeal of it but obviously many people do.

 

[Kernowfem]

But as ae have already been told most of them are working.

I said there are those who do work, not that all of them did.

 

[mac]

Or perhaps they may choose to live as travellers? Goodness me, what an original thought!

Maybe so,but them they should not expect the council to look after them.

 

[strange6]

But do you live in a caravan in a field with no toilets

They choose that way of life but that doesn't excuse them from leaving excrement on the field, does it?

 

[Kernowfem]

But do you live in a caravan in a field with no toilets

All caravans have toilets in them. Elsen points are provded for safe waste disposal on sites. Again, if more perminant sites where brought in again, another problem may be addressed.

 

[strange6]

Why don't they just go on official caravan parks then? Do they want something for nothing?

 

[mac]

All caravans have toilets in them. Elsen points are provded for safe waste disposal on sites. Again, if more perminant sites where brought in again, another problem may be addressed.

They do but if you walk on a site after they leave you will see they dont use them

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Why don't they just go on official caravan parks then? Do they want something for nothing?

Because official caravan parks hear the word travellers and automatically think of criminals and vagrants - rather like some on here.

 

[mac]

Why don't they just go on official caravan parks then? Do they want something for nothing?

How true that would save all the problems
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because official caravan parks hear the word travellers and automatically think of criminals and vagrants - rather like some on here.

Why do they think that if there's no truth in it

 

[ralphchadkirk]

How true that would save all the problems
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Why do they think that if there's no truth in it

Because they are unfairly prejudiced. It's actually quite a simple concept.

 

[Kernowfem]

Why don't they just go on official caravan parks then? Do they want something for nothing?

Now as i caravanner i can answer this question. Because people who run caravan club and camping club sites do not want them on. And will do anything to avoid to them.

Purely for the reputation that travellers have.

 

[passmore]

A reputation that sadly has led to some on here with ill-judged preconceptions about them..

 

[Kernowfem]

They do but if you walk on a site after they leave you will see they dont use them

I dare say Mac you are right, in Some instances they dont. But not all of them.

 

[thefab444]

I said there are those who do work, not that all of them did.

A lot of their "work" consists of digging up driveways, rebuilding them in a shoddy manner, and then dumping the rubble on public land.

What I want to know is how they insure their cars with no fixed address? If they don't pay council tax or national insurance, why should they be allowed to use our schools and hospitals?

 

[90019]

What I want to know is how they insure their cars with no fixed address? If they don't pay council tax or national insurance, why should they be allowed to use our schools and hospitals?

I believe some of them use dodgy trader policies.

 

[Kernowfem]

A lot of their "work" consists of digging up driveways, rebuilding them in a shoddy manner, and then dumping the rubble on public land.

What I want to know is how they insure their cars with no fixed address? If they don't pay council tax or national insurance, why should they be allowed to use our schools and hospitals?

A lot of them also work on oil rigs, as farm hands, general builders (and are good at it) caravan services, mechanics, and my colleague is a traveller and is a district nurse, they do pay council tax and as such have a right to both NHS and school services. "Our" schools and hospitals? What do you mean by "our" theres plenty of house dwellers who dont pay tax, that includes those who take drugs, drink to excess and are obese and use these services. Maybe we should refuse all of them.

In one episode of my big fat gypsy wedding one bride had worked for a hotel chain for years and had to to keep her gob shut about being a traveller for fear of being shunned and losing her job, another girl worked in a bakery specialising in wedding cakes. Many grooms had to have their identities kept secret for fear of losing work.


Those who have a pitch on a caravan site can insure their vehicles as they have a fixed abode....again, the law abiding travellers.

People may think im a do gooder who can see no wrong in travellers, but if you look at all of my posts i have only defended the law obiding ones in the community not the scum we seem to get in all walks of life.

 

[Oswyntail]

So it's ok to leave a public playing field full of rubbish, excrement, needles, dirty nappies is it (where children play) as well as destroying the land and footpaths with their vehicles? ....

The vast majority of "travellers" I have had dealings with over the years have cleaned up after themselves (usually leaving their rubbish safely bagged in a pre-arranged collection point for the council.) They leave the sites in a better state than the average city-centre after a Saturday night of people having "fun" (full of rubbish, excrement, needles, vomit and discarded "kebabs"). Some don't, and some householders have filthy habits.
The plain fact is that "travellers" are different and so a wee bit scary, which is why communities put up the shutters - and the same is true of: young people; immigrants; football fans; music festival goers; even rail enthusiasts. And there are good and bad in all those groups.