Travelled without a valid railcard

[anon12376]

I purchased a Thameslink rail ticket on the Trainline app knowing my disabled railcard was expired. It was a silly thing to do, and the second time I have done it in the app.
When I was stopped by the inspector I panicked and said I’d forgotten to bring it. He said to email a photo. I renewed the card the same day and received it in the post later that week. Ive sent it to them but due to the expiry date it was clearly purchased after, so I’m expecting a notice.
I have anxiety and am really panicking that I will miss the letter as I live with my grandmother who is unreliable at picking up the post, and am going to be away a lot in the next month. I’m not sure what to do. Obviously I deeply regret my decision to travel without renewing my railcard. Any advice much appreciated - is there any idea how long it might be until I receive the letter? I don’t know how I’m going to stay sane waiting for it.

 

[John R]

It might take several weeks for a letter to come through (I don’t think GTR is the quickest off the mark) , so I would not worry too much if you are away in the next month. And maybe you can explain to your grandma what has happened and emphasise the importance of her looking out for any post.

Whilst GTR is very good at offering settlements, instead of taking people to court, I’m afraid it will cost you rather more than the price of the railcard which you ended up buying anyway.

We get a lot of people here say that they have anxiety. A good way to reduce your level of anxiety is to comply with the law and more generally rules going forward, as it’s not particularly surprising that once you get caught, your anxiety is likely to be much greater, but now with good reason.

 

[WesternLancer]

I purchased a Thameslink rail ticket on the Trainline app knowing my disabled railcard was expired. It was a silly thing to do, and the second time I have done it in the app.
When I was stopped by the inspector I panicked and said I’d forgotten to bring it. He said to email a photo. I renewed the card the same day and received it in the post later that week. Ive sent it to them but due to the expiry date it was clearly purchased after, so I’m expecting a notice.
I have anxiety and am really panicking that I will miss the letter as I live with my grandmother who is unreliable at picking up the post, and am going to be away a lot in the next month. I’m not sure what to do. Obviously I deeply regret my decision to travel without renewing my railcard. Any advice much appreciated - is there any idea how long it might be until I receive the letter? I don’t know how I’m going to stay sane waiting for it.

Thameslink do send these out hard copy (but watch e mail and spam too).
I think you need to chat to your grandmother about the post being important.
Getting and reply to their letter is critical to avoid this getting escalated to prosecution.

Responding to secure a resolution to this should be relatively straightforward. But as you will appreciate the disabled railcard affords significant benefits to those entitled to one so not renewing yours was a serious error of judgment I would think. Sounds like you realise that now.

 

[anon12376]

Thameslink do send these out hard copy (but watch e mail and spam too).
I think you need to chat to your grandmother about the post being important.
Getting and reply to their letter is critical to avoid this getting escalated to prosecution.

Responding to secure a resolution to this should be relatively straightforward. But as you will appreciate the disabled railcard affords significant benefits to those entitled to one so not renewing yours was a serious error of judgment I would think. Sounds like you realise that now.

Thank you, I certainly do realise that. She is very old so unfortunately anything I tell her, she forgets. But maybe I could email in a couple of weeks to check they haven’t sent anything?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, I certainly do realise that. She is very old so unfortunately anything I tell her, she forgets. But maybe I could email in a couple of weeks to check they haven’t sent anything?

It’s common for them to not send letters out for 4 to 6 weeks from what we often see. Or longer.

Do you have a ref number on any you were given at the time? You’d probably need to quote that if you were minded to contact the railway company.

 

[anon12376]

It’s common for them to not send letters out for 4 to 6 weeks from what we often see. Or longer.

Do you have a ref number on any you were given at the time? You’d probably need to quote that if you were minded to contact the railway company.

Yes I do. Thank you, good to know.

I was also thinking- my railcard expired a couple of months ago, but they don’t know that, only that I just renewed it. If they look in the Trainline app they’ll see about 15 journeys with a railcard over the past year. There were 2 journeys taken after it expired, but they won’t necessarily know this. Will they assume they’re all without a railcard? I’m not sure what to do about that, or just wait.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes I do. Thank you, good to know.

I was also thinking- my railcard expired a couple of months ago, but they don’t know that, only that I just renewed it. If they look in the Trainline app they’ll see about 15 journeys with a railcard over the past year. There were 2 journeys taken after it expired, but they won’t necessarily know this. Will they assume they’re all without a railcard? I’m not sure what to do about that, or just wait.

Their is a risk they may do. Have you got proof of having the old now expired railcard? If so keep it so you can supply it. If not find evidence of it. Can you do that?

 

[anon12376]

There is a risk they may do. Have you got proof of having the old now expired railcard? If so keep it so you can supply it. If not find evidence of it. Can you do that?

Yes I still have the expired railcard.
I still haven’t heard from GTR. I’m wondering if I should contact them- I’m worried they will look at my previous journeys on Trainline and refer me to TfL, as some included journeys using them, though I did have a valid railcard and the 2 journeys I made without were GTR. However, they won’t know this as it will likely look like I just didn’t have a railcard

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes I still have the expired railcard.
I still haven’t heard from GTR. I’m wondering if I should contact them- I’m worried they will look at my previous journeys on Trainline and refer me to TfL, as some included journeys using them, though I did have a valid railcard and the 2 journeys I made without were GTR. However, they won’t know this as it will likely look like I just didn’t have a railcard

I don’t think I can recall ever seeing a case on here where one train operator as referred anyone on to another one or to TfL etc.
the process is usually that the operator that stops you acts on behalf of other operators if they choose to investigate other ticket irregularities.

It’s not really in your interests to contact GTR about this but if you wish to do so I’m sure we could help you with the wording of any letter you want to send.

I see you said you have a reference number that you were given when you were stopped and questioned about your ticket originally. So it would be possible to write to them about this if you wanted to. The alternative is to keep waiting to see if they contact you.

Up to you ref what you feel is what you would prefer and if it might give you peace of mind.

I assume you are fairly certain nothing has been sent to your grandmother’s address or to your email or spam?

 

[anon12376]

I don’t think I can recall ever seeing a case on here where one train operator as referred anyone on to another one or to TfL etc.
the process is usually that the operator that stops you acts on behalf of other operators if they choose to investigate other ticket irregularities.

It’s not really in your interests to contact GTR about this but if you wish to do so I’m sure we could help you with the wording of any letter you want to send.

I see you said you have a reference number that you were given when you were stopped and questioned about your ticket originally. So it would be possible to write to them about this if you wanted to. The alternative is to keep waiting to see if they contact you.

Up to you ref what you feel is what you would prefer and if it might give you peace of mind.

I assume you are fairly certain nothing has been sent to your grandmother’s address or to your email or spam?

Ahh thank you. So is it likely that they would look at my Trainline account, say you owe us for these journeys too, and then I can say here is my old railcard, it’s 2 journeys rather than 15?

I haven’t had any emails and I am fairly sure nothing has been sent to my house- I’ve been keeping an eye on the post and checking for any letters around the house. I think it’s unlikely my grandmother would have thrown anything away, but not 100% as her memory and eyesight are very poor

 

[WesternLancer]

Ahh thank you. So is it likely that they would look at my Trainline account,

They may or may not do that - it's hard to predict unfortunately - we do see GTR cases where they don't seem to look at past purchasing records, but we see other cases where they do - but you have to assume they might so as to be prepared for it

say you owe us for these journeys too, and then I can say here is my old railcard, it’s 2 journeys rather than 15?

They would typically say that they note x tickets have been bought with a railcard discount and can you demonstrate you had a railcard during the period concerned. If you can demonstrate that (and you say that you can) then they would remove such tickets from anything they wanted paying for

I haven’t had any emails and I am fairly sure nothing has been sent to my house- I’ve been keeping an eye on the post and checking for any letters around the house. I think it’s unlikely my grandmother would have thrown anything away, but not 100% as her memory and eyesight are very poor

Understood.

I think you have to make a judgment call decision between.

a) Either keep waiting to see if they write to you (if you have not heard after 6 to 7 months since the date it's unlikely anything will then happen)
or
b) Proactively send them something by letter asking 'when am I going to hear from you about the time I was stopped on xx date' (we can help with drafting such a letter) - doing this increases the chances of you having to pay them something

But it reduces the chances of this happening as per this thread:

Charged for fare evasion, best way to handle?

I have been charged with not being able to produce a valid ticket for inspection. I'd tapped in at romford and tapped out at farringdon for the thameslink. Travel plans suddenly changed and there was a train i needed to sprint to within a few mins. Was rushing so much that I forgot to purchase a...

www.railforums.co.uk

Which is quite stressful unfortunately but basically GTR didn't write to the passenger within the 6 months period that creates the deadline for court action - and presumably realising the deadline was upon them just commenced court action with no previous opportunity to resolve things, leaving the person concerned to urgently try and resolve it at the last minute - which ideally is best to avoid - they had a successful outcome in the end but it will have taken them more time, hassle and probably a bit more cost to resolve

So have a think about what to would prefer to do and then we can help you with whatever option you choose.

Perhaps to help you make the decision if you stated the journeys concerned where you bought tickets with the railcard discount but the railcard was not valid we can tell you what they are likely to charge you if they offered an out of court settlement.

Can you answer (if you wish to do so)

1) - Was this 2 journeys? or 2 + the occasion when you were stopped (so 3)?
2) - Were the journeys one way or return?
3) - Which stations were they to and from?

If you don't want to answer those here we can explain how to calculate it yourself.