Travelcard validity

[blakey1152]

Need a bit of advice here as I am sure the guy on the gate at Woolwich Arsenal is wrong.

I currently have a Dartford & London Zones 4-6 monthly paper Travelcard.

I boarded a train at Dartford and got off at Slade Green, went home then went back out again and boarded a train at Slade Green to Woolwich Arsenal but when I got to Woolwich Arsenal my ticket wouldn't open the gate.

I showed the guy on the gate and he asked where I had travelled from, so I told him Slade Green he told me that the ticket isn't valid as I must start my journey from Dartford. He then said that it was obviously a genuine mistake on my part so he let me buy a £3.40 single.

I was sure that having a Travelcard meant I could make unlimited trips within the zones on my ticket - Slade Green is zone 6 and Woolwich Arsenal is zone 4.

So is the guy correct and I must travel from/to Dartford for each journey (which seems crazy) or is he wrong?

Any help is much appreciated
Blakey

 

[yorkie]

He is wrong.

 

[Tetchytyke]

He's wrong, the ticket is valid for unlimited journeys between Dartford and the boundary of zone 6 (including any intermediate stations) and unlimited journeys in zones 4, 5 and 6, on Tramlink and on London Buses.

I'd send the ticket off with a complaint letter to get it refunded.

 

[Deerfold]

That's a scarily low level of knowledge of how Seasons and Travelcards work for someone whose job invloves checking tickets.

 

[Merseysider]

If true, that is horrendous.

I wouldn't stop at asking for a refund, I'd also include a point about expecting all relevant members of staff to have an understanding of how these tickets work, and ask them to confirm a timeframe within which the issue will be properly addressed and staff briefed/retrained/kicked up the backside.

There is every possibility you are not the only one to fallen foul of this employees fictitious rules.

 

[bb21]

He is so wrong that it is verging on being the most ridiculous claim I have ever heard.

Perhaps next time you see him you should give him a copy of the "London's Rail & Tube services" map with both stations highlighted in red. :roll:

 

[RJ]

That's a scarily low level of knowledge of how Seasons and Travelcards work for someone whose job invloves checking tickets.

I've watched Southeastern staff try and Penalty Fare people who have come off the DLR at Woolwich Arsenal before.

In cases of ridiculous disputes of this nature, are people really expected to hand their money over to revenue staff who don't know what they're talking about?

He is so wrong that it is verging on being the most ridiculous claim I have ever heard.

I think some of the London Overground ones are just as bad, if not worse! That said, things seemed to have quietened down on that from in recent months?

If true, that is horrendous.

I wouldn't stop at asking for a refund, I'd also include a point about expecting all relevant members of staff to have an understanding of how these tickets work, and ask them to confirm a timeframe within which the issue will be properly addressed and staff briefed/retrained/kicked up the backside.

There is every possibility you are not the only one to fallen foul of this employees fictitious rules.

Asking Southeastern to be appropriately trained on tickets may well yield an answer like the one I received!

A part of their training relevant staff are trained to identify and authorise tickets. Due to the inherent complications involved in fares and routing we can not guarantee that a mistakes will never be made. The established appeals and escalation procedure allows for these mistakes to be rectified. However, we appreciate your advice and a copy of your email has been passed to the Head of Revenue and Security.

I'm not sure if Travelcard validity is considered as "inherently complicated" in that part of the world. I read from this that they'd sooner let their staff continue to make mistakes as customers are able to appeal, than correct any misconceptions they hold.

 

[yorkie]

Indeed. Southeastern's view is "Our staff will overcharge you, tough, you'll be inconvenienced"

I'd like to see a bit of parity, including a penalty for mistakes, and prosecution if it was deliberate

 

[Merseysider]

Do you still have the ticket you paid £3.40 for? I wouldn't hold out much hope, but for an error of this magnitude I'd expect them to round the refund up to at least £5.

 

[yorkie]

I'd be wanting rather more than that, I'd be charging at least a £10 admin fee!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Did he issue a ticket? Did he definitely put the money in a till? hock:

 

[Merseysider]

I'd be wanting rather more than that, I'd be charging at least a £10 admin fee!

Don't be silly, that's more than they spend on training these folk!

 

[talldave]

So if Blakey repeats this journey, is again told to pay, and refuses to do so in the knowledge that the Travelcard covers the journey, how does the stand off get resolved?

 

[carriageline]

Get a map out and show him the zones


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Merseysider]

So if Blakey repeats this journey, is again told to pay, and refuses to do so in the knowledge that the Travelcard covers the journey, how does the stand off get resolved?

He should inform the staff member that he would like to speak to the station manager.

If the station manager is unavailable or does not back up the OP, then asking the staff to look it up or (if possible) proving it via one's mobile phone should resolve the situation.

If not, and the staff member is so misguided as to insist it's still not valid, I personally would just walk straight past him, however Blakey may not wish to do this.

 

[RJ]

There are barriers at Woolwich Arsenal so the latter solution might not work.

 

[Merseysider]

There are barriers at Woolwich Arsenal so the latter solution might not work.

Is there ever a police/RPI presence there? I'd assume they'd understand what a travelcard is.

 

[RJ]

I don't pass through there often, but I have seen RPIs at the barriers and by the other exit which connects straight to the DLR.

 

[blakey1152]

Thought i'd give you an update. I have received a refund from Southeastern and an apology for the grief they had caused!

They did also add that as mentioned on here that my Travelcard is valid for travel from Dartford and from any station in zones 4-6 and there is no requirement for each journey to start at or end at Dartford.

I do understand that the gateline staff must have many different ticket types to check but a Travelcard must be one of the most common in the London area.

Blakey

 

[RJ]

Thought i'd give you an update. I have received a refund from Southeastern and an apology for the grief they had caused!

They did also add that as mentioned on here that my Travelcard is valid for travel from Dartford and from any station in zones 4-6 and there is no requirement for each journey to start at or end at Dartford.

I do understand that the gateline staff must have many different ticket types to check but a Travelcard must be one of the most common in the London area.

Blakey

It is nice that they've confirmed what you already knew - but is there any indication that they've dealt with the knowledge gap the member(s) of staff concerned have?

 

[blakey1152]

Nope. no mention of that

So I am sure more misunderstandings will occur in the future!

Blakey

 

[PermitToTravel]

I wouldn't be so sure of that - it really is an absolutely incredibly mistake to make. It would be very surprising if any other members of staff do that

 

[RJ]

I wouldn't be so sure of that - it really is an absolutely incredibly mistake to make. It would be very surprising if any other members of staff do that

Yes, but I never thought there'd be a community of guards who genuinely didn't know that passengers have until the expiry date on their ticket to complete their journey. Apparently, they'd been taught that only one overnight BoJ was permitted on an open ticket and nobody thought to challenge that until it I took exception to having this enforced against me.

Sometimes misunderstandings flare up and spread like a virus - so it would be pertinent for the TOC concerned to ensure that this belief isn't shared by more of their staff. Passengers aren't stupid and will question ridiculous statements that some staff come out with - as per this thread and other incidents I've seen in reality.

 

[Greenback]

RJ is correct. Many misunderstandings occur because of the railway grapevine. One person has the wrong end of the stick but they are believed by their colleagues when they pass it on, especially if it appears to make sense to the railway mind (eg overnight = one night!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, but I never thought there'd be a community of guards who genuinely didn't know that passengers have until the expiry date on their ticket to complete their journey. Apparently, they'd been taught that only one overnight BoJ was permitted on an open ticket

To be fair the original post simplification wording did strongly imply this, though it is now fixed.

Neil

 

[Birdbrain]

A similar incident happened to me yesterday at Marylebone. I alighted a service from South Ruislip with a Portsmouth - London Zones 1-6 travelcard routed Southern only. The ticket didn't work the barriers (nor any other NR barries all day :roll: ) and the gateline staff told me it wasn't valid as I could only use the southern green trains. How stupid! Luckily he 'let me off this time' and I left as I didn't have time to argue. Maybe this problem is more widespread than we thought.

 

[yorkie]

A similar incident happened to me yesterday at Marylebone. I alighted a service from South Ruislip with a Portsmouth - London Zones 1-6 travelcard routed Southern only. The ticket didn't work the barriers (nor any other NR barries all day :roll: ) and the gateline staff told me it wasn't valid as I could only use the southern green trains. How stupid! Luckily he 'let me off this time' and I left as I didn't have time to argue. Maybe this problem is more widespread than we thought.

Was this at Marylebone National Rail station? If so that'll be Chiltern.

 

[Shempz]

A similar incident happened to me yesterday at Marylebone. I alighted a service from South Ruislip with a Portsmouth - London Zones 1-6 travelcard routed Southern only. The ticket didn't work the barriers (nor any other NR barries all day :roll: ) and the gateline staff told me it wasn't valid as I could only use the southern green trains. How stupid! Luckily he 'let me off this time' and I left as I didn't have time to argue. Maybe this problem is more widespread than we thought.

Man alive...now I'm no expert on rail tickets (unlike some of you on here), but surely even the man on the Clapham omnibus is aware that the "Z1-6 travelcard" portion of a NR ticket supersedes any NR TOC restrictions once inside the London zones, as I would have thought those restrictions cease to exist inside the zone.

 

[yorkie]

A Travelcard is valid in the Zones shown, on any operator, as per the Travelcard agreement.

The vast majority of staff know this, but some Train Companies do not provide adequate training to all their staff, sadly.

I am surprised at Chiltern as they are normally one of the better TOCs, however if you bring this matter to their attention I am sure they will be grateful, and will make the necessary steps to ensure that adequate training is provided.

The same problem was known to occur at Waterloo among a minority of staff, but after it was reported, the problem was resolved.

 

[PermitToTravel]

There's at least one RPI at Marylebone who seems to love "letting people off" when they've not done anything wrong - I can only assume that he feels inadequate in some way and needs to compensate.