Travel without rail card

[phoenix2589]

Hi,

Recently I traveled from High Wycombe to London Marylebone station; service run by Chiltern railways.

During the travel I had booked the ticket but I dint realise 26-30 railcard discount was checked.

When the ticket checker asked me about railcard I replied I am not having one, he then filled a form with my name and address and said I will recieve a notice regarding this and need to write them back explaining why this was done. I then checked my traveling history I found that I have done previous 10 journies from high wycombe to London marylebone station by having 26 - 30 railcard option checked.

After this incident I have purchased a Railcard.

I am scared now as I am not UK national, will I be sent a prosecution notice or I will be getting penalty notice ? Can anyone help me draft a letter to avoid any criminal investigation please ?

 

[Gloster]

You will need to wait until you receive the letter as only then can the correct advice be given by this forum. This usually takes 4 to 8 weeks, but can take six months. If you move do make sure that your post is sent on to you.

You have done the right thing by purchasing a Railcard.

Please note that I am NOT one of the experts.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We're certainly seeing lots of these cases at the moment. Here's the response I normally give to people like yourself who seek our advice in similar circumstances to yours.

You'll receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court. Chiltern Railways often use a company called Transport Investigations Limited to carry out investigations on their behalf. Reports on previous cases suggest they are normally a bit trickier to deal with and it's often necessary to write two letters to them to obtain an out of court settlement.

An potential aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. The train company will be able to search your purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to their letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £100 pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it. for you.

 

[phoenix2589]

Thank you for you reply. I will post my letter once received. For out of court settlement will I get charged for each time I did this ?

 

[30907]

Thank you for you reply. I will post my letter once received. For out of court settlement will I get charged for each time I did this ?

Possibly, but not necessarily - we are not in a position to say.
Unfortunately they are in a position to know that you didn't have a Railcard as the 26-30 is digital-only.
I suggest you budget for the full Anytime fares for all the journeys, plus an admin fee, but you may end up paying less.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for you reply. I will post my letter once received. For out of court settlement will I get charged for each time I did this ?

You should assume that yes, they quite probably will seek to obtain all evaded fares at the Anytime Single fare, esp given Chiltern and their agents TIL seem to take a hard line on this - more so than other train companies perhaps - and you may have to write 2 or 3 times seeking to persuade them to let you settle.

You need to focus on persuading them this was a genuine 'honest mistake' in your reply to them.

EDIT - posted at the same time as 30907, but I am saying the same thing!

 

[spag23]

During the travel I had booked the ticket but I dint realise 26-30 railcard discount was checked.

The OP should be aware that everyone is required to buy a ticket before starting the journey (unless there are no ticket selling facilities at the starting station).
The inspector could have picked up the OP on this. And indeed his report may have added this offence to the Railcard issue.
To avoid committing a second offence, in future the OP must not wait till they are on the train before buying a ticket.

 

[phoenix2589]

Thank you for reply.
As I have now bought rail card should I continue using the trainline app for booking tickets or I should wait for the notice and buy tickets on counter ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2023 ==

Will they know that I have bought the railcard ?
I purchased it in trainline app.

 

[Haywain]

Thank you for reply.
As I have now bought rail card should I continue using the trainline app for booking tickets or I should wait for the notice and buy tickets on counter ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2023 ==

Will they know that I have bought the railcard ?
I purchased it in trainline app.

When you send a letter you can simply state that you have now bought a railcard to prevent a repeat. In the meantime you are fine to buy tickets using the Trainline app.

 

[spag23]

As long as the OP now has a valid Railcard (either on the phone or physically), it shouldn't matter how they buy the discounted tickets for any future journey. But it's the "when" that is important.
To re-emphasise, you must - by whatever method - complete the purchase of these individual tickets before boarding the train; in many places even being ticketless on the platform is an offence.
The OP doesn't want to get caught a second time while the first incident is being considered.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for reply.
As I have now bought rail card should I continue using the trainline app for booking tickets or I should wait for the notice and buy tickets on counter ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2023 ==

Will they know that I have bought the railcard ?
I purchased it in trainline app.

Just make sure any tickets you buy are 100% correct for the journey you are making - if in doubt buy it at a ticket office or ask the ticket office to check your ticket that you have bought on line before you get on the train - all I am saying is don't make an unintentional mistake with tickets again now as it risks them thinking you are fare evading rather than just making a mistake.

Make sure you set a reminder date for when your Railcard needs renewing, as this seems to be a persistent problem on this forum with people who are using Trainline overlooking this and facing unintended problems as a result.

 

[island]

Thank you for reply.
As I have now bought rail card should I continue using the trainline app for booking tickets or I should wait for the notice and buy tickets on counter ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2023 ==

Will they know that I have bought the railcard ?
I purchased it in trainline app.

Trainline adds booking fees to most purchases so I would recommend buying tickets direct from your chosen train operating company.

It's perfectly valid to use non-Trainline tickets with your Trainline Railcard.

 

[some bloke]

Will they know that I have bought the railcard ?
I purchased it in trainline app.

You can send them an image of it, with the railcard number, when you reply.

On fees, I was surprised (as a non-user) to see

Trainline said:

"Why do some customers see different fees?

The booking fee you pay is calculated depending on whether you book on our website or on our app, when you are purchasing your ticket, and the value of your ticket. We are also continually testing changes in our product, which means some customers may have a slightly different experience to others while tests are in place."

https://support.thetrainline.com/en/support/solutions/articles/78000000472-fees

 

[Haywain]

Trainline does not add fees to on the day purchases through their app.

 

[some bloke]

I was expecting Trainline to spell out something about same-day purchases not being subject to fees, but they only say (as well as the text above),

"Do I always have to pay a booking fee?

No. Whether booking fees apply depends on your chosen journey, ticket price, when you are booking and whether you book on our website or on our app."

https://support.thetrainline.com/en/support/solutions/articles/78000000472-fees

I don't know whether that means there are exceptions or they're not committed to the policy in future, but it may be a good idea to at least register with another provider so that tickets can be bought at short notice if there are unexpected fees on Trainline.

 

[island]

Hence why I just said "most purchases" rather than trying to carve individual segments out

 

[phoenix2589]

Hi,

I have received the letter from TIL. Attached is the content of the letter they sent me.

My response is below:

Dear Sir / Madam,

Your ref: xxxxxxxx

I am writing in response to the below email and attached letter sent by you dated 05th June 2023.

I accept my mistakes referenced in the letter and the report, and I apologise profusely for what was a serious lapse of judgement from myself over a spell of time.

I am deeply sorry not only for my poor judgement but more so any resulting costs incurred and revenue lost to Chiltern Railways. I offer my most sincere apologies and this is the last occasion I will do this as I now understand the severity of my actions and the importance of purchasing valid tickets prior to travel.

I've learnt my lesson the hard way, and I am more than willing to cover my original fares and the time and administrative costs your staff are having to spend in the investigation of the matter. I hope this can begin to make amends for my errors of judgement.

I would be incredibly grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle the matter in this way without the need for court action.

I have learnt a valuable lesson from this incident, it has educated me on how much money railway companies lose due to fare evasion and how unacceptable is to commit such evasion.

I have bought 26-30 Railcard to prevent this type of mistake on 11th March 2023. Railcard No. xxxxx . I have been traveling since then with valid railcard and ticket.

Yours faithfully,

---------------

I had traveled without railcard for 12 times between Jan-Mar 23. Should I include this ? and should I write that I will pay the penalty ?

 

[WesternLancer]

--------------

I had traveled without railcard for 12 times between Jan-Mar 23. Should I include this ? and should I write that I will pay the penalty ?

probably no to the former (unless they have actually asked you to answer that question - even tho they may have evidence on it from your record) and prob no to the latter - if only because TIL have a record of refusing requests 1st time of asking so you may need to persevere and respond to them again - in which case you may need more points to make in that scenario.

Edit - having seen Hadders advice below and not having noted their letter content carefully enough (my apols) I think advice in post #19 on this is best followed.

 

[Hadders]

I had traveled without railcard for 12 times between Jan-Mar 23. Should I include this ? and should I write that I will pay the penalty ?

The letter from TIL says that they have obtained information from Trainline etc and goes onto say:

'you may have avoided your correct rail fares on other occasions (these include no 26-30 railcard). The date ranges for these additional offences are January 2023 to March 2023

Personally I think it would be best to come clean with them now, say something like you've researched your records and that you believe you have made 12 journeys between January and March. They are going to find this out anyway and it's probably best to come clean at this stage.

 

[some bloke]

If it's accidental, don't refer to errors of "judgement", or wrong "actions", or "evasion".

Your letter reads mostly as if you probably did it deliberately, but are saying "mistakes" at the start and end. Your first post says it was an accident - can you explain to them how the discount option was set, and how you didn't notice any information on the app or ticket saying there was a discount? What information appeared which you failed to notice, and can you explain why you didn't see that particular information?

What did you say to the staff member at the time - did you say then that it was a mistake?

If it was deliberate, don't say "mistake".

In theory it would be possible that you bought the other tickets for someone else, or for other reasons did not travel with them so there were no other offences. However, since the company can easily win in court with one offence, the information about the other purchases (ie a guess that you did offend on at least some of those dates) could be enough for them to decide to take you to court rather than settle. So it may well seem sensible to admit the other offences, and list the details of all those journeys to make their job easier. The reasoning here would be that the company would then take you more seriously as a person who, having been honest about the past, will take care not to offend in the future.

Of course there is a risk that any advice on here could for some reason make prosecution more likely. I mention this risk particularly because you said you are not a UK national. If you have concerns about possible risks to visa status, you will need to ask a person who is authorised to give relevant advice; you may wish to consult a solicitor to deal with the criminal matter. Many solicitors will offer a free initial consultation.

Often, people are able to obtain settlements instead of their cases going to court. But the responsibility is yours to decide whether to seek advice beyond this forum.

 

[phoenix2589]

I have modified my letter
-------------
I am writing to address an unfortunate incident regarding my ticket bookings made through the Trainline app. I recently received a prosecution letter from TIL, indicating that I made journeys without a valid railcard. I would like to explain the circumstances surrounding this mistake and express my desire to settle this matter out of court.

I utilize the Trainline app to make a reservation. At first when I was looking through cost involved in my journey I selected railcard option to check the discounted price but next time when I opened the app for booking tickets I dint realize the railcard option would still be selected. Due to my oversight, I continued with the ticket booking process without realizing the mistake.

I deeply regret this oversight and acknowledge that I should have been more diligent in reviewing the booking details before proceeding. It was never my intention to misuse the rail services or disregard any regulations. I understand the importance of complying with the appropriate procedures, and I assure you that I have taken immediate steps to rectify this situation.

After researching my journey's I found that I did 12 journeys between Jan-Mar 2023.To prevent any recurrence of such incidents, I have since purchased a railcard on 11-Mar-2023. This purchase demonstrates my commitment to following the correct protocols and ensuring the appropriate use of rail services in the future.

In light of the circumstances, I kindly request your assistance in resolving this matter outside of court proceedings. I am willing to settle any outstanding charges or fines associated with my incorrect journeys promptly. I understand that there may be administrative fees or penalties that I should bear, and I am prepared to fulfill those obligations.

I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience or concern caused by my unintentional actions. I value the professionalism and fairness exhibited by Railways and TIL, and I am hopeful that we can reach a mutually acceptable resolution to this issue.

Please find enclosed a copy of the prosecution letter and any supporting documentation relevant to this matter. I kindly request your urgent attention to this issue so that we can bring it to a swift and satisfactory conclusion.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Yours faithfully,
-----------
willl this be good enough ?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I have modified my letter
-------------
I am writing to address an unfortunate incident regarding my ticket bookings made through the Trainline app. I recently received a prosecution letter from TIL, indicating that I made journeys without a valid railcard. I would like to explain the circumstances surrounding this mistake and express my desire to settle this matter out of court.

I utilize the Trainline app to make a reservation. At first when I was looking through cost involved in my journey I selected railcard option to check the discounted price but next time when I opened the app for booking tickets I dint didn't realize the railcard option would still be selected. Due to my oversight, I continued with the ticket booking process without realizing the mistake.

I deeply regret this oversight and acknowledge that I should have been more diligent in reviewing the booking details before proceeding. It was never my intention to misuse the rail services or disregard any regulations. I understand the importance of complying with the appropriate procedures, and I assure you that I have taken immediate steps to rectify this situation.

After researching my journey's I found that I did 12 journeys between Jan-Mar 2023.To prevent any recurrence of such incidents, I have since purchased a railcard on 11-Mar-2023. This purchase demonstrates my commitment to following the correct protocols and ensuring the appropriate use of rail services in the future.

In light of the circumstances, I kindly request your assistance in resolving this matter outside of court proceedings. I am willing to settle any outstanding charges or fines associated with my incorrect journeys promptly. I understand that there may be administrative fees or penalties that I should bear, and I am prepared to fulfill those obligations.

I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience or concern caused by my unintentional actions. I value the professionalism and fairness exhibited by Railways and TIL, and I am hopeful that we can reach a mutually acceptable resolution to this issue.

Please find enclosed a copy of the prosecution letter and any supporting documentation relevant to this matter. I kindly request your urgent attention to this issue so that we can bring it to a swift and satisfactory conclusion.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Yours faithfully,
-----------
willl this be good enough ?

I think that's essentially fine. I've suggested a correction to a typo (dint > didn't) in paragraph 2.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have modified my letter
-------------
I am writing to address an unfortunate incident regarding my ticket bookings made through the Trainline app. I recently received a prosecution letter from TIL, indicating that I made journeys without a valid railcard. I would like to explain the circumstances surrounding this mistake and express my desire to settle this matter out of court.

I utilize the Trainline app to make a reservation. At first when I was looking through cost involved in my journey I selected railcard option to check the discounted price but next time when I opened the app for booking tickets I dint realize the railcard option would still be selected. Due to my oversight, I continued with the ticket booking process without realizing the mistake.

I deeply regret this oversight and acknowledge that I should have been more diligent in reviewing the booking details before proceeding. It was never my intention to misuse the rail services or disregard any regulations. I understand the importance of complying with the appropriate procedures, and I assure you that I have taken immediate steps to rectify this situation.

After researching my journey's I found that I did 12 journeys between Jan-Mar 2023.To prevent any recurrence of such incidents, I have since purchased a railcard on 11-Mar-2023. This purchase demonstrates my commitment to following the correct protocols and ensuring the appropriate use of rail services in the future.

In light of the circumstances, I kindly request your assistance in resolving this matter outside of court proceedings. I am willing to settle any outstanding charges or fines associated with my incorrect journeys promptly. I understand that there may be administrative fees or penalties that I should bear, and I am prepared to fulfill those obligations.

I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience or concern caused by my unintentional actions. I value the professionalism and fairness exhibited by Railways and TIL, and I am hopeful that we can reach a mutually acceptable resolution to this issue.

Please find enclosed a copy of the prosecution letter and any supporting documentation relevant to this matter. I kindly request your urgent attention to this issue so that we can bring it to a swift and satisfactory conclusion.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Yours faithfully,
-----------
willl this be good enough ?

Minor one but in this sentence have you forgotten the word 'Chiltern' before Railways?

I value the professionalism and fairness exhibited by Railways and TIL

Good luck with it

 

[phoenix2589]

Just an update, I was offered to settle this out of court, TIL said as this is my first offence and can be settled by paying £292.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2023 ==

Thank you for all your help

 

[Huntergreed]

Just an update, I was offered to settle this out of court, TIL said as this is my first offence and can be settled by paying £292.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2023 ==

Thank you for all your help

That’s quite a high settlement but given the number of journeys it’s not too surprising.

Glad to hear you managed to achieve a positive outcome and thank you for coming back and sharing it with us

 

[Hadders]

This is a good result in the circumstances. Although the amount of the out of court settlement is quite high TIL had researched the OP's Trainline account and the OP said there were 12 similar instances between January and March.