Travel over Christmas period, cannot get fares information

[al78]

As Christmas isn't that far away, I have been looking into return tickets from Horsham to Manchester leaving on Christmas Eve and returning on New Years Day.

On the National Rail website it comes back with train times but says next to them all "No fares available. Please choose another journey.".

I was wanting to see if there were any cheaper advance tickets available this far ahead (I'm not hopeful) but why is there no information about fares for any journey?

 

[avid2424]

There are lots of Advances or rather you need a bundle of 4 or so Advances if you route via Leicester. Booking out and back separately will make it look easier. And the forums ticket selling web page should easily do the out and back separately for you. Make sure you have opted for split tickets. Split tickets often mean stay in the same seat in the same train. And take the itineraries with you. And take the next train by the same TOC if you miss a connection due to late running

Do post again if the fares look OK

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2023 ==

Although Advances totalling around £60 are not saving much against a single of £83.30

 

[AndrewBiro]

As Christmas isn't that far away I have been looking into return tickets from Horsham to Manchester leaving on Christmas Eve and returning on New Years Day. On the National Rail website it comes back with train times but says next to them all "No fares available. Please choose another journey.". I was wanting to see if there were any cheaper advance tickets available this far ahead (I'm not hopeful) but why is there no information about fares for any journey?

looking at the Avanti web site for a (hypothetical) journey from Euston to Manchester on the 24th it shows the 24th greyed out with a messgae "Timetable not yet confirmed"...

 

[plugwash]

why is there no information about fares for any journey?

A confluence of several factors.

1. Christmas is a time of lots of engineering works.
2. Covid threw timetable planning into disarray and it hasn't recovered.
3. TOCs won't release reservations until they have a high degree of confidence the timetables are final,
4. During Covid all of the "intercity" TOCs started marking their trains as "reservations compulsory" in the timetable data. GWR and Crosscountry have since removed the marks, but Avanti and LNER have not (despite all reports being that they aren't actually enforcin reservations on the ground). If a train in an itinerary is marked as "reservations compulsory" and retailers can't get a reservation for it then those retailers can't sell a ticket against said itinary.
5. Ticket retailers, and national rail enquiries (which AIUI is essentially based on a ticket retailer codebase with the actual retailing stripped out) won't show a fare if tickets can't be sold against the itinerary.
6. National rail enquiries and most ticket retailers focus on the "fastest" journeys, slower journeys are often not shown.

Trainsplit with splitting disabled does manage to find a ticketable itinary, but it's not one I'd suggest actually taking unless you enjoy riding around on slow trains and using what has been in my experiance one of the least reliable lines in the country recently.

FWIW an any permitted off-peak return is £119.00

 

[al78]

A confluence of several factors.

1. Christmas is a time of lots of engineering works.
2. Covid threw timetable planning into disarray and it hasn't recovered.
3. TOCs won't release reservations until they have a high degree of confidence the timetables are final,
4. During Covid all of the "intercity" TOCs started marking their trains as "reservations compulsory" in the timetable data. GWR and Crosscountry have since removed the marks, but Avanti and LNER have not (despite all reports being that they aren't actually enforcin reservations on the ground). If a train in an itinerary is marked as "reservations compulsory" and retailers can't get a reservation for it then those retailers can't sell a ticket against said itinary.
5. Ticket retailers, and national rail enquiries (which AIUI is essentially based on a ticket retailer codebase with the actual retailing stripped out) won't show a fare if tickets can't be sold against the itinerary.
6. National rail enquiries and most ticket retailers focus on the "fastest" journeys, slower journeys are often not shown.

Trainsplit with splitting disabled does manage to find a ticketable itinary, but it's not one I'd suggest actually taking unless you enjoy riding around on slow trains and using what has been in my experiance one of the least reliable lines in the country recently.

FWIW an any permitted off-peak return is £119.00

Thanks for the info. I had a feeling uncertainty over engineering works might have been a reason but didn't appreciate the other reasons in your list. It may be best to have another look nearer the time. I've tried the site linked off this forum and yesterday it suggested going via Sheffield which is longer but a bit cheaper. That is not coming up today though. Looks like I have to try again nearer the time or buy a walk-up ticket and negotiate any disruption as best I can.

 

[Dave91131]

Travel by car / bus / coach / plane.

Forget the railway. There'll almost certainly be some kind of industrial action over that period anyway.

 

[avid2424]

The forum’s ticket is showing me the Advances right now

As said try via Leicester. You would get the via Sheffield BUT also those that go via Chesterfield but avoid Sheffield

Make sure you have selected split tickets

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You would get the via Sheffield BUT also those that go via Chesterfield but avoid Sheffield

What services go via Chesterfield but avoid Sheffield?

 

[avid2424]

On reflection I think I was finding a CHANGE at Chesterfield - into a THROUGH service which runs onwards from Chesterfield via Sheffield to Manchester

Can I also confess that I seem to have an app on my mobile that is currently outperforming the forum's rail ticket site with regard to splits for the OP's journey on the OP's dates. I always thought that the app and the forum were producing identical results - but I do not often try a VIA STATION.

I might have bought 2 or 3 tickets via said app. But I trust the forum including for ease of use

 

[plugwash]

The fast services on the hope vally are split between TPE and EMR. I'm not sure if it's still the case, but not so long ago both TPE and EMR were having serious problems with cancellations due to staff shortages, and they did not seem to coordinate with each other. So you would often get two trains in a row cancelled.

Unless you want a slow and unreliable journey I would seriously reccomend waiting for avanti reservations to be released.

 

[zoneking]

There could be a strike, just like last year.

 

[avid2424]

To confirm it was CHANGE at Chesterfield. 08:37 from Horsham to St Pancras. 10:30 from St Pancras. changing at Chesterfield. All EMT from St Pancras to Manchester Piccadilly

6 tickets including 4 Advance Singles from Luton Airport Parkway through to Manchester

And seeing Chesterfield as the change point caused me to think not Sheffield

And changing at St Pancras and then I assume a same platform change at Chesterfield might have the edge over getting an Avanti train

Obviously a slower train given the call at Luton Airport Parkway. But more scenic through to Manchester

And of course if you input change at Chesterfield then you always change at Chesterfield and never change at Sheffield

 

[yorkie]

On reflection I think I was finding a CHANGE at Chesterfield - into a THROUGH service which runs onwards from Chesterfield via Sheffield to Manchester

Can I also confess that I seem to have an app on my mobile that is currently outperforming the forum's rail ticket site with regard to splits for the OP's journey on the OP's dates. I always thought that the app and the forum were producing identical results - but I do not often try a VIA STATION.

I might have bought 2 or 3 tickets via said app. But I trust the forum including for ease of use

Which app is this? If it beats the forums site please send me a message with any screenshots and I will look into it, thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2023 ==

There could be a strike, just like last year.

There may be a strike over Christmas. However, there is no disadvantage to booking now as:

1. If you choose not to travel, you are entitled to a full refund
2. You would generally be able to travel the day before or after, on the original tickets, if you do choose to travel.

My advice would be to consider the possibility of needing to travel a day before or after; in some cases, you may want to book refundable hotel rates to mitigate this.

For example, I have booked the 2100 from Edinburgh a few days before Christmas; I also have a fully refundable premier Inn for the same day, which I will cancel if a strike doesn't get announced.