Travel Issues

[fdog]

Got this email and letter from GA and before reading this website for similar forums, i replied which i have attached all correspondence.

I was confused as i mostly work from home but there is times where i go to Stratford and i buy a short ticket and then get off at Stratford where no barriers.

However i do sometimes go to Marks Tey and Chelmsford when i have exams and i normally pay for these tickets but not always scanning in and out due to barriers being open as its normally not during rush hour. I fear they may use all my marks tey tickets as me going to London which isn't the case.

I saw some people have advised not to reply as i haven't actually been caught and given a penalty fare. However, im unsure if i have no incriminated myself by sending the emails i sent.

Would love any advice. Thanks

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Stratford station (assuming you mean the one in London and not the one in Warwickshire) most definitely has barriers.

Your email (IMG_2124) definitely gives a strong hint that you have done something wrong - why else would you want to settle the matter?

 

[fdog]

From Stratford i use the tube so i don't exit there and always pay the full TFL fare.

Yes I was admiting i have sometimes gone to Stratford with no ticket but this is has happened a couple times and not recently.

This is what i'm admitting to but i'm now worried that they may think my issue is worse than it is and im regularly travelling to London when this isn't the case as i work from home.

Stratford station (assuming you mean the one in London and not the one in Warwickshire) most definitely has barriers.

Your email (IMG_2124) definitely gives a strong hint that you have done something wrong - why else would you want to settle the matter?

 

[WesternLancer]

From Stratford i use the tube so i don't exit there and always pay the full TFL fare.

Yes I was admiting i have sometimes gone to Stratford with no ticket but this is has happened a couple times and not recently.

This is what i'm admitting to but i'm now worried that they may think my issue is worse than it is and im regularly travelling to London when this isn't the case as i work from home.

I think you will have to see what they say now you have responded to them. I suspect they would settle with you and not prosecute but that will of course cost you.

Make sure you 100% have correct rail tickets for all train travel from this point. You are very much on their radar.

 

[fdog]

Do you think it would have been better to not respond?

 

[WesternLancer]

Do you think it would have been better to not respond?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2024 ==

My worry is that they'll think my genuine trips to Marks Tey are me going to London.

Is the settlement normally something you can dispute or is it normally accurate and final?

It would have been better not to have responded until your wording checked here I guess. But what’s done is done.

Yes. If you are co operating with them you can set out travel where they are wrong but it helps if you can supply supporting evidence.

But hold back from further replies to them until you have got advice here and weighed it up as to your next steps. Given you have actually evaded fares you are in a different situation to the other recent thread.

 

[fdog]

ok thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

ok thank you

I guess you could evidence why you needed to go to Marks Tey and not London? Being able to do that helps. Eg what you do there, receipt on bank card from a shop there or such like?

 

[fdog]

I go to Chelmsford for exams as it's my closest centre and Marks Tey to see my girlfriend.

I guess you could evidence why you needed to go to Marks Tey and not London? Being able to do that helps. Eg what you do there, receipt on bank card from a shop there or such like?

 

[WesternLancer]

I go to Chelmsford for exams as it's my closest centre and Marks Tey to see my girlfriend.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2024 ==

@AlterEgo can i have your advice please?

so that is a good explanation - no doubt you get some confirmation of an exam date that would give evidence you could show, and presumably you have your girlfriends address (but you have to tell the truth - it would be most unlikely to ever come to it but you have to at least in theory imagine a scenario where it went to court and you had to say in court, or your girlfriends does, that you visited. Lying in court is way way more serious than any train fare evasion ever could be)

I'm not saying you are lying - just saying this so you know the consequences of things.

 

[AlterEgo]

I go to Chelmsford for exams as it's my closest centre and Marks Tey to see my girlfriend.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2024 ==

@AlterEgo can i have your advice please?

Well you’ve all but admitted you’ve been caught in what you’ve sent, you can’t take that back now. As you’ve replied, and indicated that you have indeed been engaging in some sort of misconduct, you now have no choice but to continue, and to be honest, and reach a settlement.

 

[Hadders]

Greater Anglia will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement.

Let us know what Greater Anglia say in response to your email. Do not send anything else to Greater Anglia without asking us to proof read it.

 

[fdog]

they've replied. it seems weird as a lot of these tickets are valid and they've gone back years to 2020 maybe even further.

 

[AlterEgo]

they've replied. it seems weird as a lot of these tickets are valid and they've gone back years to 2020 maybe even further.

they need to tell me where i was travelling to, these journeys go years back - is it my responsibility to remember this?

regarding timing of me scanning the tickets, sometimes i'm waiting for a lift, sometimes i might be on a call and just staying in the station, sometimes even waiting for people at the station, i don't really get what they mean by this.

They mean that they can tell you’ve been purchasing the tickets while on the train. You aren’t allowed to do that - you need to buy the proper fare before you board in most circumstances.

Given you have actually been short faring - and admitted misconduct - it’s now up to you to be very honest and up front with them about what you have been doing and when.

also i did have a railcard for the majority of that period but do i have to prove this?

It’ll help if you want to settle out of court.

are they able to ask for railcards 3 + years old?

Yes, they can ask. If you purchased them, where did you buy them from?

 

[fdog]

ok but they don't seem to know where i was actually going and i can't even remember some of these trips as they're from years ago. The majority are valid though - i have only short fared recently.

i had a santander railcard for 4 years which expired in October 21

 

[WesternLancer]

ok but they don't seem to know where i was actually going and i can't even remember some of these trips as they're from years ago. The majority are accurate, the only wrongdoing is the fact i have bought it on the train or at the barriers when they're closed. i have only short fared recently.

well one point they are making is that you have a ticket going to a place where they appear to know the train you were on (presumably from the ticket scan) did not stop - so by implication they know - or believe - you were not going there because the train did not stop there.
So I guess they want to know where you were going on that journey.

However, this does seem slightly odd because if the ticket was scanned on the train by a person you would expect that person to notice the ticket was issued to a place the train did not stop at and ask you about that then and there (not some years later). A scan at a barrier has no bearing on what train you actually go on to get on board once beyond the barrier.

You can ask them to provide you with a list of when they think you had the wrong ticket - but before you ask them anything at all I would post up the wording of what you want to send them so you can get help here on what to say when you ask the question.

separately can you find any proof of your Santander Railcard? - as if you can that will help

 

[John R]

ok but they don't seem to know where i was actually going and i can't even remember some of these trips as they're from years ago. The majority are accurate, the only wrongdoing is the fact i have bought it on the train or at the barriers when they're closed.

Just to be clear, buying at the barriers on arrival if you see they are closed will be seen as evidence of trying to avoid paying the correct fare, as had the barrier been open you would by implication not have purchased a ticket, (and may not have done on other occasions).

 

[fdog]

well one point they are making is that you have a ticket going to a place where they appear to know the train you were on (presumably from the ticket scan) did not stop - so by implication they know - or believe - you were not going there because the train did not stop there.
So I guess they want to know where you were going on that journey.

However, this does seem slightly odd because if the ticket was scanned on the train by a person you would expect that person to notice the ticket was issued to a place the train did not stop at and ask you about that then and there (not some years later). A scan at a barrier has no bearing on what train you actually go on to get on board once beyond the barrier.

You can ask them to provide you with a list of when they think you had the wrong ticket - but before you ask them anything at all I would post up the wording of what you want to send them so you can get help here on what to say when you ask the question.

separately can you find any proof of your Santander Railcard? - as if you can that will help

thanks

how do you feel about me waiting for another email until replying?

yes that's what i'm thinking, how can they know what train i got on by the time i've scanned in/out a barrier.

i want to ask them what journeys they think i had the wrong ticket.

is me admitting wrongdoing of buying those tickets on train going to help or worsen things?

i should be able to get proof of my railcard, the 8 month gap i wasn't in the area so haven't used GA services, maybe one or two tickets. will the fact a couple of them are invalid mean that i'll get punished for all?

 

[AlterEgo]

thanks

how do you feel about me waiting for another email until replying?

yes that's what i'm thinking, how can they know what train i got on by the time i've scanned in/out a barrier.

By implication - if I scan my Long Buckby to Rugby ticket at Rugby at 16:52 for example - AND I have a clearly dodgy track record when it comes to short ticketing - then they are more likely to think I came on the 1647 arrival off Euston than me arriving on the 16:34 from Long Buckby and waiting for over 15 minutes to leave.

i want to ask them what journeys they think i had the wrong ticket.

They are asking you to explain them - and it may be up to you to find evidence. Regrettably, this is the path you have set yourself on having firstly short fared often, and secondly having replied and so fulsomely admitted misconduct.

is me admitting wrongdoing of buying those tickets on train going to help or worsen things?

It'll help if that is the truth, because at this stage they are conducting an honesty test.

i should be able to get proof of my railcard, the 8 month gap i wasn't in the area so haven't used GA services

Have you used any other train companies? Have you short fared elsewhere?

 

[fdog]

the misconduct i apologised for was for buying tickets on trains.

yes i have used other trains on occasion, no short faring. i dont have a history of doing it often either.

 

[AlterEgo]

the misconduct i apologised for was for buying tickets on trains.

What, and not the obvious short faring? (That is worse, by the way)

You have removed the emails in the original post, but essentially you did not actually apologise for anything specific in your reply to them. They basically know what you have been up to and replying to their email was unwise, but it is where you are now, so it is now time to do some work and figure out what you owe, why, and on which occasions. It might seem like hard work and a faff and no doubt you feel naive for replying so fulsomely to the first email which says "hello you seem dodgy" but it's where you find yourself.

 

[fdog]

but if they know what i've been up to then why can't they just provide the facts.

for example if i say to them, ive short fared once, are they just going to take my word for it? i need more from them before i can comment unfortunately. I've not even been given dates or times and we're talking 4 years ago.

 

[AlterEgo]

but if they know what i've been up to then why can't they just provide the facts.

Because they are estimating what you are done from data. Ordinarily, where you have not been stopped, and get one of these emails, the wisest thing to do is simply not reply (and stop fiddling your fares), because absent any comment or admission or apology from you, they have no meaningful evidence to bring any prosecution.

for example if i say to them, ive short fared once, are they just going to take my word for it?

Unlikely, because they weren't born yesterday. The Stratford "trick" is a very entry-level type of fare evasion; GA are used to it and know it goes on a great deal.

i need more from them before i can comment unfortunately. I've not even been given dates or times and we're talking 4 years ago.

There's nothing wrong with asking for clarification (they might say "here are 25 dates we think are suspicious"), but the onus will fall back onto you again to show the purpose of your journeys. If you cannot, it is likely they will assume you short fared to/from Stratford every time, because they already know you are a dishonest person who has been committing offences in this manner.

 

[WesternLancer]

but if they know what i've been up to then why can't they just provide the facts.

for example if i say to them, ive short fared once, are they just going to take my word for it? i need more from them before i can comment unfortunately. I've not even been given dates or times and we're talking 4 years ago.

you could reply to them and say nothing other than to put the ball back in their court. They do provide people with such lists from what is seen on other threads.

eg
'Please could you supply a list of dates and journeys where you believe I have not paid the correct fare for my train travel so that I can check any records I may be able to locate about what I was doing on those dates.'

avoid saying anything about anything else in the message

 

[fdog]

you could reply to them and say nothing other than to put the ball back in their court. They do provide people with such lists from what is seen on other threads.

eg
'Please could you supply a list of dates and journeys where you believe I have not paid the correct fare for my train travel so that I can check any records I may be able to locate about what I was doing on those dates.'

avoid saying anything about anything else in the message

ok thanks, will reply in a few days

do i not comment on the railcard stuff as well?

 

[WesternLancer]

ok thanks, will reply in a few days

do i not comment on the railcard stuff as well?

My hunch is don’t go into that yet. Get all your fact’s together on the travel so you can reply and then detail the railcard info then as well.