Travel irregularity

[purpleorange66]

Hello I got a letter from greater Anglia saying I need to respond within 7 days. I need some advice and help to write back

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

What does the letter say? Scan a copy in, hiding your personal info and then give the forum an explanation of what happened during the incident when you were caught.

 

[purpleorange66]

I got stopped by an officer and noticed that tapping in was missing. It clearly showed that I was not tapping in several times. I was honest with the officer and told him that I mad a huge error on part and will never attempt to do such a thing again. The officer explained there will be a letter sent to my address that I will need to respond and here I am now. I don't want to be prosecuted and get this on record and I am truly sorry for this and want to do better. I am willing to pay the fine and any other cost as well the reminder of my tickets.I was so naive to think that this was ok, not that it matters but I know that this something I will never ever do again I've been paying for the right fare ever since that incident.

 

[John R]

You say it clearly showed that you were not tapping in several times. Do you mean that he could identify tapped out journeys without a tap in? If so it is likely (but not definite) that the full extent of your ticketing irregularities will be taken into consideration, not just the isolated event. That will, at the very least, make any settlement you are offered more expensive, and might make them less inclined to offer one in the first place.

I’d take issue with the comment that you were so naive as to think it ok. Surely you knew that it was fraudulent to avoid paying MH the correct fare? So I would certainly be careful to avoid any such comment in a draft response.

 

[purpleorange66]

Yes I need help with response

 

[ChewChewTrain]

1) I assume this is Oyster and not Contactless?

2) Have you been starting your journey at a station where Oyster is not valid?

3) Have you been getting charged a Maximum Fare each time you haven’t tapped in? Is this Maximum Fare nonetheless cheaper than the fare that you should have been paying each time?

4) Where did the officer stop you?

5) Why did the officer stop you?

Answering each of these questions (and those from other posters) will allow us to provide the help you are requesting. Without such information, we would only be guessing.

 

[purpleorange66]

1) I assume this is Oyster and not Contactless?

Yes this is oyster

2) Have you been starting your journey at a station where Oyster is not valid?

No

3) Have you been getting charged a Maximum Fare each time you haven’t tapped in? Is this Maximum Fare nonetheless cheaper than the fare that you should have been paying each time?

No I was using a monthly season oyster ticket

4) Where did the officer stop you?

In London Liverpool Street

5) Why did the officer stop you?

The officer noticed that there was a couple of missing taps (tapping in) on the oyster

 

[John R]

Sorry, this feels a bit like a game of Twenty Questions where we have to try and ask the right questions to tease the information out of you. Although we’ve now got some of the relevant facts, you are not making it easy for us to help you. So please help us to help you by setting everything down once rather than drip feeding us information piece by piece.

As examples, we still don’t know if your monthly oyster was valid from the station you started your journey, why were there were missing tap-ins, and whether these only related to some of your journeys.

 

[purpleorange66]

My monthly oyster was not valid from my station. I bought a zone 1 to 3 monthly oyster. The area I was coming from is in zone 6. My apologies my intention is not to drip feed.ill be more clear.
I got off at Liverpool Street station and there were a number of officer checking oyster. I got pulled to the side and officer noticed that I have a season monthly ticket zone 1 to 3 and missing touches from start point. He noticed a regular bus I take from zone 6. The officer questioned me about this and basically got me to admit. I said this was happening for a few months and was not going in to detail. I was so stupid to think this is ok and I really regret it, I should have known better. The officer said he will look up online to see if there is more irregular touch ins on my card or anything similar. I know I've done several times before, I'm really worried that I will get taken to court or get prosecuted, the officer explained that I wouldn't go to court or get prosecuted and I have to wait for a letter that I will need to reply to it in order to settle this out of court the officer said I would get investigated for my train history and to recover what I owe as well as additional charges. I am unsure if the officer was being deceptive in order to elicit the truth from me, but the officer was insistent that I would not go to court or face any legal repercussions. Any assistance or guidance would greatly alleviate my anxiety. I am deeply concerned and frightened at the moment. I fully acknowledge that there is no justification for the actions I have taken.

 

[John R]

Ok, that’s more helpful thanks. There are others who are better placed to set out the best course of action, but at least they will now have a clearer idea of the position you are in.

One final inconsistency though. You say you’ve done it “several times”, but also mention a few months. If you were commuting with a monthly season, what were you doing on the days when you didn’t fail to tap in, as your season wouldn’t be valid from your start point in Z6 (or were you staying over somewhere away from your usual residence).

 

[purpleorange66]

I normally get the train from Tottenham hale Z3 but there were occasions were I got from Z6 as I was staying with relatives

 

[MikeWh]

I normally get the train from Tottenham hale Z3 but there were occasions were I got from Z6 as I was staying with relatives

For the future, if you need to travel outside the zones on your Oyster travelcard but still within the Oyster area, just put some money on the Oyster card and the system will charge a single extension fare, in this case from zone 6 to zone 4. The travelcard then takes over.

 

[purpleorange66]

I just want to know if there is solicitors that can help or recommend.

 

[transportphoto]

Here’s something taken from a recent thread:

I availed the services of REEDS solicitors who are experts in rail fare evasion law. May total fee was more than 1k GBP . I would highly recommend reeds solicitors for any fare related issues. Mind you the lawyers fees is separate. Do ask for Nathan Seymour Hyde at REEDS. He handled my case and is completely professional and experienced.

 

[Hadders]

You probably don't need a solicitor at this stage, based on the information you've given the case seems reasonably straightforward. Greater Anglia are one of the more pragmatic train companies when it comes to this sort of thing, my view would be to reply to their letter and if their response is unfavourable then that would be the time to consider engaging a solicitor.

Consider mentioning the following in your reoly:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter


Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

If you post a copy of the letter (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread, forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[madjack]

But is this letter about the one-off incident or from the fraud team? Really we need to see the letter the OP has received.

 

[Haywain]

But is this letter about the one-off incident or from the fraud team? Really we need to see the letter the OP has received.

Why do you think it would be from the fraud team?

 

[madjack]

Why do you think it would be from the fraud team?

I think it *could* be from the fraud team because of the seven day response that the OP mentioned - e.g. this letter from GA. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/greater-anglia-prosecution-letter.249765/. I don't believe that standard letters usually have the same urgency. That letter from GA also has the title "travel irregularity" that the OP has put in their heading here.

 

[Hadders]

Speculation about what the letter might say is unhelpful.

We really can’t give any further advice until @purpleorange66 posts a copy of exactly what has been sent to them.

 

[purpleorange66]

Speculation about what the letter might say is unhelpful.

We really can’t give any further advice until @purpleorange66 posts a copy of exactly what has been sent to them.

This is the letter I received

 

[Haywain]

I just want to know if there is solicitors that can help or recommend.

A number of solicitors firms have been mentioned on previous threads, such as Manaks and Penman Sedgwick, but legal representation comes at a high price especially if it is from a specialist firm. A recent thread suggested that successful engagement of one of these firms had cost around £1500. Generally, we find that matters can be resolved without solicitors as long as you are not dealing with Transport for London.

 

[purpleorange66]

This is my draft so far, please let me know if it needs to be adjusted.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm responding to a letter you sent on 11/08/2023, with the reference: xxx>.

I failed to present a valid ticket on Tuesday, July 4, 2023, for the portion of my train trip from zone 6 xxx> Station to zone 1 xxx> station. I had bought a monthly season ticket for the TFL from Zone 1 to Zone 3.

I apologise genuinely for not having a current ticket. I've learned a great lesson, realise how foolish my actions were, and am confident that I won't make the same error again.

Since the event, I have made sure I have a valid ticket for every trip I take because I understand that ticket evasion causes the rail business to incur enormous costs every year.

If there is a chance to resolve this situation amicably, I would be very appreciative. I'd want to volunteer to pay the remaining price and any fees associated with handling this situation.
For the remainder of my life, I promise to always purchase a legitimate ticket before boarding any trains.

your faithfully,

 

[Haywain]

This is my draft so far, please let me know if it needs to be adjusted.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm responding to a letter you sent on 11/08/2023, with the reference: xxx>.

I failed to present a valid ticket on Tuesday, July 4, 2023, for the portion of my train trip from zone 6 xxx> Station to zone 1 xxx> station. I had bought a monthly season ticket for the TFL from Zone 1 to Zone 3.

I apologise genuinely for not having a current ticket. I've learned a great lesson, realise how foolish my actions were, and am confident assure you that I won't make the same error again.

Since the event, I have made sure I have a valid ticket for every trip I take because I understand that ticket evasion causes the rail business to incur enormous costs every year and will continue to do so.

If there is a chance to resolve this situation amicably, I would be very appreciative. I'd want to volunteer would appreciate the opportunity to pay the remaining price outstanding fare and any fees associated with handling this situation.
For the remainder of my life, I promise to always purchase a legitimate ticket before boarding any trains.

your faithfully,

I've made a few amendments which I would suggest you use. Take out the bit about the zone 1 to 3 season - you need want to emphasise the fact that this may not have been a one-off. Assure them it won't be repeated rather than just being confident. And ask to pay the fare and their costs.

 

[purpleorange66]

I've made a few amendments which I would suggest you use. Take out the bit about the zone 1 to 3 season - you need want to emphasise the fact that this may not have been a one-off. Assure them it won't be repeated rather than just being confident. And ask to pay the fare and their costs.

Thank you so much I will imply those changes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2023 ==

Just want to make sure I'm I better off sending the letter first before speaking to a solicitor?

 

[30907]

Thank you so much I will imply those changes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2023 ==

Just want to make sure I'm I better off sending the letter first before speaking to a solicitor?

Yes. See what they say - they only mention  an irregularity.

 

[Haywain]

Just want to make sure I'm I better off sending the letter first before speaking to a solicitor?

Yes, as above.

 

[purpleorange66]

Thank you I'll send it over