Travel irregularity

[josha169]

Basically I was in a rush to get my train and didn't have time to buy a ticket there was no barriers up or staff near the barrier so I assumed I could buy my ticket on the train. I did ask him if I could buy a ticket and explain my story and he seemed like he didn't believe me and took my details and now has led to this.

I got a letter a couple of days ago by cross country and not sure what to do. Should I write an apology to them and say ill accept the fare cost and any penalty cost or should I wait for them to get back to me?

Dear xxxxxx

Ref: Travel Irregularity on xxxxxxx

A person giving your name and address was stopped on xxxxx by one of our front live revenue protection staff. This matter has now been forwarded to our agents at transport investigation limited for further investigation. Their contact details are

xxx

They will be in touch with you in due course to discuss the matter further. All correspondence on the matter should be directed to them at the address mentioned above .

 

[Nippy]

Depends on the Train company. Which one is it?

 

[les.]

Depends on the Train company. Which one is it?

It says Cross Country in the OP's post.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which station was this, and what was the journey you were making? You don't need to give dates.

 

[josha169]

Which station was this, and what was the journey you were making? You don't need to give dates.

From Newcastle to alnmouth

 

[crehld]

The letter you received seems to indicate they will get in touch with you first. Their normal approach is to write to you and ask for your side of the story before they proceed any further. You could wait for this invitation, but I see no harm in trying to proactively get it resolved.

The key thing is to recognize that being in a rush isn't a valid excuse for not having a ticket. If you're honest and open, and are willing to pay the outstanding fare plus any additional costs incurred , then the matter should be easily resolved. So your idea of writing a letter is a good one. It should contain three elements:

- A brief statement of the facts of the incident (date, time, place), including an acknowledgement that you didn't have a ticket and that you accept not buying a ticket before boarding was wrong.
- A sincere apology for not having a ticket, and a commitment to ensure in future you'll always buy before boarding.
- An offer to pay any outstanding fare that is due along with any additional costs that the company has incurred in .

It's by no means guaranteed, but this approach has been successful in many cases similar to yours.

Keep your letter short and concise. Don't waffle or give any back story as to why you were running late, or how a prosecution would damage future career prospects, etc. - they won't care. Keep it to three paragraphs and no more than one side of A4. If you look on previous threads in this section of the forum you'll come across a couple of example letters you can use as a template. Several people on here are also happy to read drafts if you feel comfortable posting one up.

 

[Nippy]

It says Cross Country in the OP's post.

Ah so it does. Missed that!

 

[AlterEgo]

From Newcastle to alnmouth

Okay, they definitely have you by the balls then. But, these things can be resolved.

crehld's post is pretty authoritative and I recommend you take it all on board.

 

[josha169]

How does this look



Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to you about an incident that occurred on xxx around xxx, At the time I assumed that it is acceptable to buy a ticket on the train but I found out it isn't. I boarded one of your trains without a ticket and I accept this was wrong.

I would also like to apologize for not having a ticket and any inconvenience this may have caused. I am committed in the future to always buy a ticket before boarding.

I accept that was wrong and willing to pay any outstanding fare that is due along with any additional cost that the company has incurred in.

Your Sincerely
xxxxx

 

[cuccir]

It would benefit from copy-editing, but otherwise it's broadly good.

I am writing to you about an incident that occurred on xxx around xxx,. At the time I assumed that it is acceptable to buy a ticket on the train but I found out that day that it isn't on that day. I boarded one off of your trains without a ticket and I accept this was wrong.

I would also like to apologies apologize for not having a ticket and any inconvenience this may have caused. I am committed in the future to always buy a ticket before boarding.

As I am in the wrong I am willing to pay any outstanding fairs fare that is due along with any additional cost that the company has incurred in I think this sentence needs completing?

I would be tempted to add one further sentence after "I accept that was wrong", which would say something to the effect that it was your intention to purchase a ticket for travel on the train or on arrival at Alnmouth.

 

[josha169]

It would benefit from copy-editing, but otherwise it's broadly good.



I would be tempted to add one further sentence after "I accept that was wrong", which would say something to the effect that it was your intention to purchase a ticket for travel on the train or on arrival at Alnmouth.

Thanks for the help , I have sent the letter today so now I just have to wait.

 

[crehld]

Thanks for the help , I have sent the letter today so now I just have to wait.

Great. Let us know how you get on.

 

[amateur]

I thought you were allowed to bu tickets on board on xc.

Or did no conductor brush pass

 

[AlterEgo]

I thought you were allowed to bu tickets on board on xc.

Or did no conductor brush pass

No, it's a criminal offence not to purchase a ticket before you travel, where ticket facilities exist.

 

[island]

How did you get through the ticket barriers at Newcastle?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

How did you get through the ticket barriers at Newcastle?

They are generally open before 7am and after 9 or 10pm.

I was more curious to know how anyone could get near the barriers without passing several of the ticket machines, only one of which I have EVER seen having a queue. [actually, there are two ways to get into the concourse without passing a TVM, but even if one is physically open, there are signs prohibiting pedestrian access, and the other involves passing through the shops, where there is a TVM only slightly off course from the shop exit on the concourse on the way to the barriers - and going via the shops isn't quicker when we're "in a rush"].

 

[crehld]

They are generally open before 7am and after 9 or 10pm.

And at numerous times between!

 

[josha169]

How did you get through the ticket barriers at Newcastle?

All the barriers were open
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I got a letter today but what I don't understand is were they are getting Paddington station from. I was on a previous train from London King cross to Newcastle, I then pass the barriers to get on the outer side (barriers were open, all of them and no staff were about) and went to Burger King and bought some food I soon Realized my train was shortly coming so the barriers were open (all of them) So I assumed I could buy a ticket on the train to Alnmouth From Newcastle.



We are agents for the rail company and are in a receipt of a report, which advises that on 11/07/2016 a person giving your name and details was spoken to by railway revenue protection staff in connection with with a journey between London Paddington and Alnmouth for which you showed no valid ticket.

The purpose of this letter is to advise you of the proposed action and to provide the opportunity for any mitigation that you wish to be considered. This must be signed correspondence and can be sent to the address shown above. We will also accept a fax or if you have access to a scanner, we will accept a scanned copy of a signed letter through our email address shown below.

The report of this incident indicates that sufficient evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation. This file is presently with our prosecutions team who are considering whether any charge should allege an offence against Railway Byelaws (2005) or, The Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

In any successful prosecution we will ask the Magistrates to award cost and compensation in favour of the rail company. This will be in addition to any fine that the Magistrates may seek to impose.

If I do not receive any written representation from you within 21 day of the date of this letter, a summons to a Magistrates Court hearing may be issued without further reference to you.

 

[najaB]

I also do have a witness that I did board the correct train From London King coss to Alnmouth

What was the destination of the train you boarded at Kings Cross, what time did it leave and what ticket did you hold - what was the origin and destination, and what type was it (e.g. Advance, Anytime, Off Peak)?

 

[josha169]

What was the destination of the train you boarded at Kings Cross, what time did it leave and what ticket did you hold - what was the origin and destination, and what type was it (e.g. Advance, Anytime, Off Peak)?

It was a Virgin train and I think the train end destination was Edinburgh Waverly but my ticket destination was to Newcastle , it was either 11:30 or 12:30 it was an advance ticket

 

[najaB]

It was a Virgin train and I think the train end destination was Edinburgh Waverly but my ticket destination was to Newcastle , it was either 11:30 or 12:30 it was an advance ticket

In that case, what station you originally boarded at (Paddington/Kings Cross) doesn't matter in the slightest.

All that matters is that you entered a train at Newcastle without a ticket, despite the fact that there were working ticket vending facilities. The barriers being open is also irrelevant.

 

[josha169]

In that case, what station you originally boarded at (Paddington/Kings Cross) doesn't matter in the slightest.

All that matters is that you entered a train at Newcastle without a ticket, despite the fact that there were working ticket vending facilities. The barriers being open is also irrelevant.

If you read my previous post about me sending a letter, I acknowledge that I boarded a train without a ticket and it was wrong, rereading this letter it says between London Paddington and Alnmouth meaning that I could of boarded that train any time between that journey?

 

[najaB]

...rereading this letter it says between London Paddington and Alnmouth meaning that I could of boarded that train any time between that journey?

I know that. I am trying to emphasise the point that it doesn't matter that they've written that the journey started at Paddington. All that matters is that you didn't have a valid ticket when you boarded at Newcastle - the London to Newcastle journey was complete when you arrived at Newcastle.

If you intend to claim that this was a single journey using split tickets, you needed to purchase the Newcastle to Alnmouth ticket before you got to Newcastle.

You can't even use the defence that you intended to make the journey using split tickets but that you didn't have time to buy the second ticket (there is some merit in saying that you don't need to delay your journey) as you had enough time to go to Burger King, that means you had enough time to buy a ticket.

 

[josha169]

I know that. I am trying to emphasise the point that it doesn't matter that they've written that the journey started at Paddington. All that matters is that you didn't have a valid ticket when you boarded at Newcastle - the London to Newcastle journey was complete when you arrived at Newcastle.

If you intend to claim that this was a single journey using split tickets, you needed to purchase the Newcastle to Alnmouth ticket before you got to Newcastle.

You can't even use the defence that you intended to make the journey using split tickets but that you didn't have time to buy the second ticket (there is some merit in saying that you don't need to delay your journey) as you had enough time to go to Burger King, that means you had enough time to buy a ticket.

I have completely miss read the letter it states between Paddington and Alnmouth , So my First train is irrelevant to the letter I got , I just thought they were accusing me boarding from Paddington to Alnmouth but its between . Sorry for confusion


Any way am guessing I should resend the letter and address it the correct person as I didn't have a name from the last letter

 

[clagmonster]

In that case, what station you originally boarded at (Paddington/Kings Cross) doesn't matter in the slightest.

All that matters is that you entered a train at Newcastle without a ticket, despite the fact that there were working ticket vending facilities. The barriers being open is also irrelevant.

The one thing that could be argued is that it provides further evidence of intent to avoid payment of the fare. By reckoning, three opportunities passed, Kings Cross booking office, the guard on the Kings Cross to Newcastle train and Newcastle booking office.

Just to clarify, your journey started at Kings Cross and not some south east suburban station? In which case, with the ticket issuing facilities there, there is little doubt a byelaw offence took place.

 

[6Gman]

All the barriers were open
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I got a letter today but what I don't understand is were they are getting Paddington station from. I was on a previous train from London King cross to Newcastle, I then pass the barriers to get on the outer side (barriers were open, all of them and no staff were about) and went to Burger King and bought some food I soon Realized my train was shortly coming so the barriers were open (all of them) So I assumed I could buy a ticket on the train to Alnmouth From Newcastle.



We are agents for the rail company and are in a receipt of a report, which advises that on 11/07/2016 a person giving your name and details was spoken to by railway revenue protection staff in connection with with a journey between London Paddington and Alnmouth for which you showed no valid ticket.

The purpose of this letter is to advise you of the proposed action and to provide the opportunity for any mitigation that you wish to be considered. This must be signed correspondence and can be sent to the address shown above. We will also accept a fax or if you have access to a scanner, we will accept a scanned copy of a signed letter through our email address shown below.

The report of this incident indicates that sufficient evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation. This file is presently with our prosecutions team who are considering whether any charge should allege an offence against Railway Byelaws (2005) or, The Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

In any successful prosecution we will ask the Magistrates to award cost and compensation in favour of the rail company. This will be in addition to any fine that the Magistrates may seek to impose.

If I do not receive any written representation from you within 21 day of the date of this letter, a summons to a Magistrates Court hearing may be issued without further reference to you.

It might be helpful if in replying you pointed out that your journey was from Kings Cross not Paddington and that you held a valid ticket between London and Newcastle. It doesn't alter the fact that you did not hold a valid ticket for travel between Newcastle and Alnmouth.

 

[gray1404]

When you spoke to the person on the Cross Country train, did you tell them that you had started your journey in London earlier on that day and show them your ticket valid for travel between London and Newcastle.

The fact is you had a valid ticket to Newcastle and you left the Virgin service there. The problem only took place when you boarded the Cross Country service at Newcastle. I therefore thing that this should be getting treated by Transport Investigations as a journey starting from Newcastle.

 

[cjmillsnun]

There are two ways of look at this.

Your journey either started at King's Cross and ended at Alnmouth, or you took two separate journeys one from the Cross to Newcaste, and the other was from Newcastle to Alnmouth.

They think you did a third journey from Paddington to Alnmouth...

Personally I think you need to correct them, showing evidence of authority to travel to Newcastle from London (your ticket if you still have it) and confess as you already have done to the journey from Newcastle to Alnwick.

TIL aren't going to believe you at first because they have Paddington in their records. I will warn you of that.

 

[najaB]

Personally I think you need to correct them, showing evidence of authority to travel to Newcastle from London (your ticket if you still have it) and confess as you already have done to the journey from Newcastle to Alnwick.

I'm struggling to see how this helps with the matter at hand: the OP boarded a train at Newcastle having bypassed the opportunity to purchase a ticket entitling them to travel.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'm struggling to see how this helps with the matter at hand: the OP boarded a train at Newcastle having bypassed the opportunity to purchase a ticket entitling them to travel.

Because they think he travelled from Paddington! An administrative settlement from Paddington will be higher than one from Newcastle.