TRAVEL IRREGULARITY REPORT

[MUFC1987]

GOT STOPPED on train

 

[jfollows]

Weeks or months.
Within six months.
You may get a letter asking for your explanation of events, in return you can apologise, acknowledge your error, explain why you won’t do it again, and ask to pay unpaid fares plus costs to avoid court.
Buying a real railcard if you qualify for one would be a good demonstration also.

 

[WesternLancer]

Got stopped and received TIR travelling on transpennine express for using an altered railcard about two weeks ago and got told by train conductor that I will receive a letter but not heard anything as of yet, does anyone know how quick TPE are on these matters and how likely am I to just receive an out of court settlement- this is my first offence stupidly altering railcard of my father. Any advice would be great thank you.

You may get a letter but also potentially an e-mail so check e-mail and spam regularly.

Falsifying details on a Railcard is a more serious matter than things like pretending to 'not have had time to buy a ticket' / 'forgetting' to renew your Railcard etc as you will appreciate it involves them having discovered a pre-meditated decision to alter the Railcard to deliberately evade fares, presumably in the hope you would then be bale to do that for some time before anyone noticed / if it ever got noticed. But this does not automatically rule out an out of court settlement.

So it is reasonable to expect them to carry out a thorough investigation of the railcards use - eg looking at your on line purchases of tickets discounted with a Railcard which they are likely to seek re-payment for - this might include legitimate tickets bought by your father which they may well just assume you bought for your own use. Depending on how much travel is involved this could add up to a fair old sum as if they do offer an out of court settlement then they will seek to charge the undiscounted Anytime peak single fare for each one way journey.

You should start looking at your on line ticket account to see what this might add up to (but advice on here is do not go and delete that account as that puts you at a disadvantage in terms of access to information that they will still be able to access even if you have deleted the account under their ability to access information for the prevention of crime).

If you are actually entitled to hold a Railcard then one thing you could do ASAP is go and buy one, as this is something you can then say that you have legitimately done to 'change your ways' which is an important way of persuading them not to prosecute you for this offence but to allow you to settle the matter out of court.

When you hear from them you should return here for relevant advice on what to do. But you can also search other threads (I think there was one involving an altered railcard with Trans Pennine earlier in the year if you can find it for example)

In the meantime if you want to know anything more about what you can expect to happen by all means post your questions.

 

[MUFC1987]

Thank you, I can’t seem to find that thread and the outcome- does anybody know the outcome?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@indy12345. Welcome to the forum. Just how long have you been using the moody railcard to purchase / use inappropriately discounted tickets? What were the typical journeys involved? You mention in your opening post "first offence". Does that essentially mean the first time you've been stopped? Have you ever held a legit railcard? When did that expire? Can you prove this? Likely outcome is that you're going to have to pay up several hundred £.

 

[MUFC1987]

TPE

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@indy12345. The undiscounted fare for a one-way Newcastle to Liverpool journey is £104.70. Add a three figure administration fee on top and reckon you're looking at stumping up a total of £200+.

 

[MUFC1987]

Does anyone know if TPE are willing to settle these kind of matters out of court and the likely chances of this as this will result in me losing my job if I get a criminal conviction. Are they one of the better companies willing to settle matters out of court?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, I can’t seem to find that thread and the outcome- does anybody know the outcome?

sorry - I had a look for the case using my memory of it but could not locate it.

 

[fandroid]

@Mcr Warrior. This was my first time using this railcard and the only time. The journey was from Newcastle to Liverpool. I have had a previous railcard but expired years ago.

I'm not sure what TPE's record is on chasing old Railcard discounted fares, but I strongly recommend that if you have any records that prove that you had a genuine Railcard in the past, you get on and find them. Train companies are now digging through past digital ticket buying data and coming up with claims for large sums of unpaid fares. They'll assume the worst if they see previous discounted fares. You have made yourself very vulnerable by this daft piece of petty fraud.

 

[WesternLancer]

Does anyone know if TPE are willing to settle these kind of matters out of court and the likely chances of this as this will result in me losing my job if I get a criminal conviction. Are they one of the better companies willing to settle matters out of court?

Have a look at other TPE cases if you have not already done so.

I suspect it is quite likely they would settle, and more likely they would do so if there is just this one instance (but you may need to gather evidence that supports you have not done this before)

a) are you saying confidently that they will not find any other examples of Railcard discounted tickets bought on your on line ticket buying records if they look?

b) How many years ago did your previous Railcard expire?

c) Are you entitled to a Railcard now (ie meet the age criteria for one for example)? - if so buy one - consider it a £35 investment in helping to increase the chances of avoiding being taken to court...)

Ref risk to your job
- check exactly what your contract of employment says at this stage (about declaring convictions - which you do not as yet have given it would be some time before this escalated to court which you may be able to avoid)
- be prepared if this escalates to speak confidentially to a union rep at work if you have one (and consider joining a union at work if you are not a member)
- be aware that there are specialist solicitors who deal with fare evasion work if this escalates, that you could seek quotes from for assistance - they don't come cheap but if loosing your job is really at stake then their fees might be something you wish to consider.

 

[notmyrealname]

To add to what the pros have said, please don't think about deleting any accounts that you use to book rail tickets. All that does is to makes sure that TPE can view the account if they want to but you can't.

 

[MUFC1987]

There will be evidence on my account as I only used it this once and all my other local journeys I have not used a railcard?

Yes they won’t find any other railcard journeys other than this.

Like 6 years ago.

Yes I have just bought a railcard now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2025 ==

Also just for reference as this was on a TPE train, will they investigate other tickets for example if I used it on another rail company or just TPE?

 

[WesternLancer]

There will be evidence on my account as I only used it this once and all my other local journeys I have not used a railcard?

why the question mark?

local or not local / long distance or short distance trips / this train company or any other train company, Train line or other retailers - they could look. If they look at all of that they will only find this one occasion where a Railcard discounted ticket has been purchased since your late railcard expired 6 years ago?

Yes they won’t find any other railcard journeys other than this.

Like 6 years ago.

Yes I have just bought a railcard now.

OK - this seems like it puts you in a better position than if you had altered the railcard then used it on various times (although form what we see of people being asked to show railcards it's unusual for that to happen regularly it seems so unusual 'statistically' for your offence to have been detected the first time. But if they can't find other examples of it's use then they can't hold that against you I would assume.

6 years ago is less likely to be dug out and questions put to you I suspect - but if you can locate any proof of having a railcard legitimately 6 years ago, as mentioned up thread try to find it now just in case you need it (I realise with that length of time ago that may not be easy)

Otherwise I don't think there is much you can do until you get contacted by them which may take some weeks to happen (or months potentially).

 

[MUFC1987]

Yes this is the only railcard journey I have used that’s not been a legitimate trip.

Also a question I’ve logged into my Trainline account and it says no past journeys as I normally just check out as a guest, does this matter in any way or can they still see everything?

Also just for reference as this was on a TPE train, will they investigate other tickets for example if I used it on another rail company or just TPE?

 

[skyhigh]

Also just for reference as this was on a TPE train, will they investigate other tickets for example if I used it on another rail company or just TPE?

They will look at all purchases on your account, regardless which operator was involved. But that shouldn't be a problem, if this was a one-off?

 

[MUFC1987]

I’ve looked and I have used it once before that I had forgotten about earlier this year. So that makes it twice however that time it wasn’t on TPE train

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I’ve looked and I have used it once before that I had forgotten about earlier this year. So that makes it twice however that time it wasn’t on TPE train

Was that another railcard-discounted journey using the moody railcard? If so, what was the journey on that previous occasion?

 

[MUFC1987]

Yes and that was from Wigan to glasgow

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes and that was from Wigan to Edinburgh
@Mcr Warrior

They can potentially look at all records and the train company that finds the ticket irregularity acts on behalf of all other train companies. This is normal practice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2025 ==

Also a question I’ve logged into my Trainline account and it says no past journeys as I normally just check out as a guest, does this matter in any way or can they still see everything.

Assume they can see everything. Even guest check outs are linked back to you via things like cards you paid with and e mails tickets were sent to.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes and that was from Wigan to Edinburgh

That'll likely be another seventy quid or so to pay, on top of what was discussed previously. So, were there any other journeys made using tickets with inappropriate railcard discounts applied, even if you weren't stopped at the time? Best not to drip feed!

 

[MUFC1987]

No they were the only ones @Mcr Warrior

Does anyone know if TPE are more likely to settle out of court or they harsher company that wont

 

[WesternLancer]

No they were the only ones @Mcr Warrior

Does anyone know if TPE are more likely to settle out of court or they harsher company that wont

By no means the worst I would suggest.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2025 ==

No they were the only ones @Mcr Warrior

Does anyone know if TPE are more likely to settle out of court or they harsher company that wont

You may find the general advice in post #11 of this thread worth looking over if you haven’t seen it already. Different sort of evasion but that general advice is largely still relevant.

Northern Rail Short Faring

I was caught short faring on a northern rail service. I travel from Darwen to Salford central and back every day and have been regularly short faring my journey with a ticket from Salford crescent. When caught I said that I’d made a mistake when purchasing the ticket. I know this is wrong and I...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[MUFC1987]

Hi guys, just received this letter. Any help on the reply to this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi guys, just received this letter. Any help on the reply to this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

so this is letter is specifically asking about your actions. You need to take care in how you reply and the wording you use and take this very seriously, as you probably appreciate.

I doubt you have any great 'mitigation' to offer for this (but if you have had financial difficulties you can mention that if it is true but best to make it clear that you understand that is not an acceptable excuse for what happened) - so I suspect you need to use phrases like you 'accept that this was a very serious error of judgment' on your part - and say that you now properly understand the seriousness of the consequences of an action like this, and that you understand it impacts on the railway operators and their staff, other passengers and taxpayers who help to fund the railway if people don't pay what they should pay for tickets and railcards - basically you are going to need to do some grovelling in terms of asking them not to prosecute you.

see post #2 from @jfollows which is good advice

The structure of your reply can follow this general advice

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again (you certainly need to convince them of this)
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action / prosecution
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare(s) and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

It would probably best for you to draft something up and post here for people to have a look over if you think that would help in terms of getting your draft as good as it can be. Try and put it in your own words rather than an AI generated effort which can often seem to be a bit insincere.

This is also a structure for replies posted on the forum a while ago that seems to me both thorough and helpful:

Paragraph 1: Acknowledge and Address the Incident

• Start by thanking them for their letter and clearly stating the date of the letter.
• Immediately identify the specific incident they're referring to, including the date of travel and the stations involved – also use any reference number they have issued on any paperwork you have
• State directly that you are writing in response to this incident.

Paragraph 2: Accept Responsibility for the Specific Incident

• Clearly and unequivocally state that you fully accept responsibility for not having a valid railcard / ticket

Paragraph 3: Express Remorse and Impact

• State that you deeply regret your actions regarding this
• State that you understand the seriousness and the wider consequences

Paragraph 4: Propose a Settlement

• Clearly state that you hope to resolve this matter through an out-of-court settlement. This signals your intention to avoid court proceedings.
• Confirm your willingness to pay any outstanding fare(s) / sum owed and to cover their administration costs. This is a precise offer for the specific incident being investigated.
• Conclude by asking what further information or action they require from you to facilitate this resolution.

 

[MUFC1987]

I have drafted the below response. Can you all please check to see if it’s good enough or if there are any bits you would add/change. Thank you








Dear Sir/Madam

I would like to thank you for your letter dated 03/12/2025.
I am writing in response to the letter I received on 08/12/2025 referring to the incident which occurred on the 16/11/2025 which involved me travelling from Chester Le Street to Newton Le Willows with an invalid ticket.
I fully accept responsibility for not having a valid ticket and sincerely apologize for this. I deeply regret my actions which led me to present an invalid ticket to the authorized member of railway staff. I accept this was a very serious error in judgement on my part and deeply rue my actions on this day.
I purchased a last minute ticket for a trip to Newton Le Willows and mistakenly bought this with a railcard attached and after preparing this for the ticket inspector it came to my attention that I purchased an invalid ticket and therefore altered a railcard after panicking and worrying I would then have to buy another ticket and with cost of living so high for me it was something I could not afford to do however looking back at this it was a terrible mistake to make and one I deeply regret.
I now fully understand the seriousness of the consequences of an action like mine, and I also understand the impact on the railway operators and your staff, other passengers and other taxpayers.
I have certainly learned from this incident and therefore this will be first and last time I will take an action like this, and I will never make this judgement again. Since this incident I have purchased a valid railcard at my first available opportunity which I will use on valid journeys when travelling on the railway.
I would like to acknowledge that I have learnt from this incident massively and fully understand the seriousness of my action. This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring I have the correct documents prepared and therefore not violating the railway.
I am now aware of the severity of this incident and that I have committed a criminal offence. As stated in your revenue protection policy you are also aware that this will affect my professional life if this results in a criminal conviction so I would therefore be really grateful if this matter can be settled out of court and I am more than willing to pay all administration costs and outstanding fares I owe to the railway required to settle this matter at the earliest opportunity with an out-of-court settlement.

Please let me know if you require any further information from me to conclude this matter.
I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have drafted the below response. Can you all please check to see if it’s good enough or if there are any bits you would add/change. Thank you








Dear Sir/Madam

I would like to thank you for your letter dated 03/12/2025.
I am writing in response to the letter I received on 08/12/2025 referring to the incident which occurred on the 16/11/2025 which involved me travelling from Chester Le Street to Newton Le Willows with an invalid ticket.
I fully accept responsibility for not having a valid ticket and sincerely apologize for this. I deeply regret my actions which led me to present an invalid ticket to the authorized member of railway staff. I accept this was a very serious error in judgement on my part and deeply rue my actions on this day.
I purchased a last minute ticket for a trip to Newton Le Willows and mistakenly bought this with a railcard attached and after preparing this for the ticket inspector it came to my attention that I purchased an invalid ticket and therefore altered a railcard after panicking and worrying I would then have to buy another ticket and with cost of living so high for me it was something I could not afford to do however looking back at this it was a terrible mistake to make and one I deeply regret.
I now fully understand the seriousness of the consequences of an action like mine, and I also understand the impact on the railway operators and your staff, other passengers and other taxpayers.
I have certainly learned from this incident and therefore this will be first and last time I will take an action like this, and I will never make this judgement again. Since this incident I have purchased a valid railcard at my first available opportunity which I will use on valid journeys when travelling on the railway.
I would like to acknowledge that I have learnt from this incident massively and fully understand the seriousness of my action. This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring I have the correct documents prepared and therefore not violating the railway.
I am now aware of the severity of this incident and that I have committed a criminal offence. As stated in your revenue protection policy you are also aware that this will affect my professional life if this results in a criminal conviction so I would therefore be really grateful if this matter can be settled out of court and I am more than willing to pay all administration costs and outstanding fares I owe to the railway required to settle this matter at the earliest opportunity with an out-of-court settlement.

Please let me know if you require any further information from me to conclude this matter.
I look forward to hearing from you.

You should cut it down a bit.

You can't "deeply" rue something because rue already means a bitter regret. You either deeply regret doing something or you rue it. But nobody says rue outside of sports and talking about missed chances, and it looks like you used a thesaurus to find another way to say regret. Just say regret. That's what normal people say!

You didn't "violate the railway" (this implies you harmed it or had sex with it). You violated the law, or the rules. But just say "broke the rules".

I also don't think you should say you altered a railcard in a panic when you were getting the ticket ready for the inspector. It doesn't sound true, and they will probably think you always intended to evade the fare especially as you also plead poverty. That explains your motivation to commig the fraud. Cut that bit out, this doesn't do you any favours.

Finally words like apologise have an S in British English. Z is the preserve of the Americans.

 

[MUFC1987]

is this better below? @WesternLancer would also be great to have your opinion.

Dear Sir/Madam



I would like to thank you for your letter dated 03/12/2025.

I am writing in response to the letter I received on 08/12/2025 referring to the incident which occurred on the 16/11/2025 which involved me travelling from Chester Le Street to Newton Le Willows with an invalid ticket.

I fully accept responsibility for not having a valid ticket and sincerely apologise for this. I deeply regret my actions which led me to present an invalid ticket to the authorized member of railway staff. I accept this was a very serious error in judgement on my part and regret my actions.

I purchased a last minute ticket for a trip to Newton Le Willows and mistakenly bought this with a railcard attached. It then came to my attention that I purchased an invalid ticket and therefore altered a railcard.

I now fully understand the seriousness of the consequences of an action like mine, and I also understand the impact on the railway operators and your staff, other passengers and other taxpayers.

I have certainly learned from this incident and therefore this will be first and last time I will take an action like this, and I will never make this judgement again. Since this incident I have purchased a valid railcard at my first available opportunity which I will use on valid journeys when travelling on the railway.

I would like to acknowledge that I have learnt from this incident massively and fully understand the seriousness of my action. This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring I have the correct documents prepared and therefore not violating the railway laws.

I am now aware of the severity of this incident and that I have committed a criminal offence. As stated in your revenue protection policy you are also aware that this will affect my professional life if this results in a criminal conviction so I would therefore be really grateful if this matter can be settled out of court and I am more than willing to pay all administration costs and outstanding fares I owe to the railway required to settle this matter at the earliest opportunity with an out-of-court settlement.



Please let me know if you require any further information from me to conclude this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[WesternLancer]

is this better below? @WesternLancer would also be great to have your opinion.

Dear Sir/Madam



I would like to thank you for your letter dated 03/12/2025.

I am writing in response to the letter I received on 08/12/2025 referring to the incident which occurred on the 16/11/2025 which involved me travelling from Chester Le Street to Newton Le Willows with an invalid ticket.

I fully accept responsibility for not having a valid ticket and sincerely apologise for this. I deeply regret my actions which led me to present an invalid ticket to the authorized member of railway staff. I accept this was a very serious error in judgement on my part and regret my actions.

I purchased a last minute ticket for a trip to Newton Le Willows and mistakenly bought this with a railcard attached. It then came to my attention that I purchased an invalid ticket and therefore altered a railcard.

I now fully understand the seriousness of the consequences of an action like mine, and I also understand the impact on the railway operators and your staff, other passengers and other taxpayers.

I have certainly learned from this incident and therefore this will be first and last time I will take an action like this, and I will never make this judgement again. Since this incident I have purchased a valid railcard at my first available opportunity which I will use on valid journeys when travelling on the railway.

I would like to acknowledge that I have learnt from this incident massively and fully understand the seriousness of my action. This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring I have the correct documents prepared and therefore not violating the railway laws.

I am now aware of the severity of this incident and that I have committed a criminal offence. As stated in your revenue protection policy you are also aware that this will affect my professional life if this results in a criminal conviction so I would therefore be really grateful if this matter can be settled out of court and I am more than willing to pay all administration costs and outstanding fares I owe to the railway required to settle this matter at the earliest opportunity with an out-of-court settlement.



Please let me know if you require any further information from me to conclude this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Some of @AlterEgo suggestions would still help you trim and focus it a bit more.

Is it true you forged the railcard ‘spur of the moment’? If any notion that isn’t the case don’t say it although if it’s the truth then that’s not an issue.

I would end on ‘I would be most grateful if you could give this your sympathetic consideration’ rather than ‘I look forward to hearing from you’, though you need to be comfortable with your wording.

 

[duffield]

It's still a bit repetitive, for example:

I have certainly learned from this incident and therefore this will be first and last time I will take an action like this, and I will never make this judgement again.

Which is basically saying "I won't do this again, and what's more I won't do this again". So you can just cut the second part after the comma.


And here:

I would therefore be really grateful if this matter can be settled out of court and I am more than willing to pay all administration costs and outstanding fares I owe to the railway required to settle this matter at the earliest opportunity with an out-of-court settlement.

Which amounts to:
"I would therefore be really grateful if this matter can be settled out of court ... and would like to settle it with an out-of-court settlement."

Which, for example you could change to simply:

I would be grateful if this matter could be settled out of court by my payment of all administration costs and outstanding fares owed.

Without dissecting too much further, you also repeat in two different paragraphs that you have learnt from the incident and also repeat that you understand the seriousness/severity. It's really only necessary to say these things once.

Having said all that, it probably doesn't matter that much when it comes to your objective of getting an out of court settlement. I just feel it's best to put whoever's reading the letter in the best mood possible by cutting any redundancy.