Travel Irregularity Notice (TPE)

[scooterJ]

Hi,

I recently travelled on the TPE line between Greenfield and Leeds. I use a 3rd party app (Trip.com) to purchase tickets and the train was delayed so it didn't let me buy one, I bought the next station's ticket (Marsden -> Leeds).

Normally I travel between Marsden and Leeds but this time I got the Greenfield one.

The inspector asked me to show my ticket at Marsden which I did and then asked me for the ticket for the remainder of the journey to which I explained I wasn't able to purchase one since the train was delayed and he gave me an irregularity notice and took my details. What should I expect to happen next?

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For context, I've never received a notice before.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You'll have to wait for them to write to you.

They are likely, at an absolute minimum, to ask you for the full anytime single between Greenfield and Leeds, together with an administation fee. This is usually about £150.

However, they may well also get the details of your previous transactions and inspect those too. You say that you normally travel from Marsden. You may wish to consider whether this is completely true and, if it is, how you may go about proving this, particularly if your home address is not near Marsden and is near somewhere in Greater Manchester.

There is a considerable difference in fares between Greenfield-Leeds (£19 anytime day single) and Marsden-Leeds (£7.90 anytime day single). So if there are a lot of tickets in your account history from Marsden to Leeds then TPE may well ask you to account for these and pay the difference in fares.

 

[scooterJ]

You'll have to wait for them to write to you.

They are likely, at an absolute minimum, to ask you for the full anytime single between Greenfield and Leeds, together with an administation fee. This is usually about £150.

However, they may well also get the details of your previous transactions and inspect those too. You say that you normally travel from Marsden. You may wish to consider whether this is completely true and, if it is, how you may go about proving this, particularly if your home address is not near Marsden and is near somewhere in Greater Manchester.

There is a considerable difference in fares between Greenfield-Leeds (£19 anytime day single) and Marsden-Leeds (£7.90 anytime day single). So if there are a lot of tickets in your account history from Marsden to Leeds then TPE may well ask you to account for these and pay the difference in fares.

Thanks for replying. It's the station that's nearest to me after Greenfield (around 10 mins further) and I take it precisely because of the price disparity. I'm not 100% sure how I would go about proving this though?

 

[Chiltern 165]

Thanks for replying. It's the station that's nearest to me after Greenfield (around 10 mins further) and I take it precisely because of the price disparity. I'm not 100% sure how I would go about proving this though?

What is your relation to Marsden? As in, do you work there, or live there?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

What is your relation to Marsden? As in, do you work there, or live there?

If you use paid for parking, then does that provide a record of when you have parked there (e.g. through RingGo)?

<Edited to add> It's also worth bearing in mind that if you get back to the railway and say something like 'I drive to Marsden for the cheaper fares' then at this stage it's legitimate just to assert that - but the railway would be perfectly reasonable to come back and say 'OK - prove it'. So you don't need to have your proof right now - but you do need to be certain that if asked to prove it, you could do so.

Also bear in mind that the more plausible what you have said to the railway, the more likely they are to believe you. So (for example) on occasions people have told us that they get a train from A to B, then someone gives them a lift from B to C, and then they join the exact same train that they got off at B to finish their journey to D: these people often find that the railway will require a lot of proof because the story isn't believable, and the railway thinks that they have stayed on the train from A to D without having a ticket between B and C. That's nothing like your circumstance, but you will have to convince the railway that it really makes sense for you to drive to Marsden rather than getting the train from Greenfield.

 

[scooterJ]

What is your relation to Marsden? As in, do you work there, or live there?

I live about 15 - 20 mins away, it's just the train station that I take to get to Leeds where I work

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 13:13 ==

If you use paid for parking, then does that provide a record of when you have parked there (e.g. through RingGo)?

I don't pay for parking I normally get a drop off/pick up via taxi or family

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 13:15 ==

To be honest though, I'm not really bothered about paying a fine if I have to, I'm more concerned if it becomes a criminal thing, what's the likelihood of that?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 13:28 ==

If you use paid for parking, then does that provide a record of when you have parked there (e.g. through RingGo)?

<Edited to add> It's also worth bearing in mind that if you get back to the railway and say something like 'I drive to Marsden for the cheaper fares' then at this stage it's legitimate just to assert that - but the railway would be perfectly reasonable to come back and say 'OK - prove it'. So you don't need to have your proof right now - but you do need to be certain that if asked to prove it, you could do so.

Also bear in mind that the more plausible what you have said to the railway, the more likely they are to believe you. So (for example) on occasions people have told us that they get a train from A to B, then someone gives them a lift from B to C, and then they join the exact same train that they got off at B to finish their journey to D: these people often find that the railway will require a lot of proof because the story isn't believable, and the railway thinks that they have stayed on the train from A to D without having a ticket between B and C. That's nothing like your circumstance, but you will have to convince the railway that it really makes sense for you to drive to Marsden rather than getting the train from Greenfield.

Sorry didn't see the edit, thanks. I guess I could argue it but actually proving it seems pretty difficult - my ticket history is semi-indicative of this, I used to get the train from Greenfield but switched to Marsden after noticing the price difference so now all my tickets are from there with the exception of 2 or 3 that are returns from Greenfield for whatever circumstance. I appreciate your response in any case though

 

[island]

I recently travelled on the TPE line between Greenfield and Leeds. I use a 3rd party app (Trip.com) to purchase tickets and the train was delayed so it didn't let me buy one, I bought the next station's ticket (Marsden -> Leeds).

Why didn't you purchase a ticket from the ticket machines at Greenfield?

 

[scooterJ]

Why didn't you purchase a ticket from the ticket machines at Greenfield?

They're on the opposing platform and the train was leaving but that aside, I'm happy to take responsibility for the fact I should have purchased a ticket from Greenfield and pay whatever fine results from that.

I actually did say to the conductor that I was happy to pay the difference but he was uninterested.

 

[speedy1]

I actually did say to the conductor that I was happy to pay the difference but he was uninterested.

Right. You must have a valid ticket before boarding. I imagine they're generally not allowed to show discretion in this circumstance.

If they let people just pay the difference when challenged, there would be far less incentive to buy the correct fare.

 

[Chiltern 165]

Do you use any vending machines or cafes at Marsden station?

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To be honest though, I'm not really bothered about paying a fine if I have to, I'm more concerned if it becomes a criminal thing, what's the likelihood of that?

You don’t want to pay them back - they will likely want hundreds potentially thousands of pounds of compensation. If you are lucky, you are likely to be issued with an out of court settlement around £80-£200.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for replying. It's the station that's nearest to me after Greenfield (around 10 mins further) and I take it precisely because of the price disparity. I'm not 100% sure how I would go about proving this though?

It's going to be problematic for you I'm afraid. You were caught having boarded at Greenfield, not Marsden, and it is reasonable for them to assume that is exactly what you do all the time absent any other evidence to the contrary.

 

[RichA]

They're on the opposing platform and the train was leaving but that aside, I'm happy to take responsibility for the fact I should have purchased a ticket from Greenfield and pay whatever fine results from that.

I actually did say to the conductor that I was happy to pay the difference but he was uninterested.

Be aware that you have had to walk past the ticket office and ticket vending machine to access the Leeds bound platform, TPE will be aware of this.

 

[WesternLancer]

@scooterJ - obviously you have had some useful advice above

As mentioned you basically need to wait for them to write to you about this and it's important you receive their letter or e-mail (so also check spam) and respond to it or things can escalate in ways that are best avoided.

The general advice usually given here on responding is:

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Further to that, they may ask you more about the details of what happened / or further investigate things, but best thing to do is to address that if / when they ask about it, either in their initial letter or later on. Advice in thread above from people will no doubt help you think about and prepare for that.