Travel Incident Report Advice

[kylehbsn]

Hi all,

I wanted to get some advice on something that happened recently. I got to Lostock station and found the ticket machine was broken. There was no one at the ticket booth, and the train had just arrived, so I boarded.

I tried to buy a ticket via the Trainline app, but it wouldn’t let me as the train had already departed. When I got to Bolton, I purchased a ticket on the app for the earliest possible departure so I could scan it at the barriers and leave the station. Unfortunately the ticket barriers were down so my ticket was manually scanned. He then asked for my railcard, as I was getting it up he notices that my ticket was purchased 1 minute ago.

After this, I was issued a travel incident report. I’ve given all my details to Northern Rail.

Given what happened, what is the likely outcome? Has anyone experienced something similar and how did it get resolved?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Watershed]

You haven't committed any offences or done anything that would give rise to a Penalty Fare, since there were no ticket buying facilities in operation at Lostock. That is a defence to any legal action.

However, because you bought a ticket on your phone after you boarded, this in some ways puts you in a worse position. Northern might suggest you should have done this before boarding - and though they are wrong, it puts your case into what they will perceive as the "pay when challenged" category.

For now, there isn't much you can do. However, make sure you check for letters regularly and arrange Royal Mail redirection if you move within the next 6 months or so. If/when you hear back from Northern, you can get more advice on how to respond.

 

[kylehbsn]

You haven't committed any offences or done anything that would give rise to a Penalty Fare, since there were no ticket buying facilities in operation at Lostock. That is a defence to any legal action.

However, because you bought a ticket on your phone after you boarded, this in some ways puts you in a worse position. Northern might suggest you should have done this before boarding - and though they are wrong, it puts your case into what they will perceive as the "pay when challenged" category.

For now, there isn't much you can do. However, make sure you check for letters regularly and arrange Royal Mail redirection if you move within the next 6 months or so. If/when you hear back from Northern, you can get more advice on how to respond.

Thanks for this.

The reason I hadn’t previously purchased a ticket for the train using the app is I prefer physical tickets over e/tickets (seems silly, I know). I only really purchase online if it’s a long journey as I don’t want to risk losing them. The only reason I actually use Trainline is for my railcard in all honesty.

Would you say that it’s worth mentioning this when it comes to me providing a response?

From what I’ve read I understand that you can be issued with a warning, fine or prosecution. Which of these is most likely for my case if you had to put it down to one?

Just for some additional information, I was issued a penalty fare 2 years ago when a friend purchased my ticket for me and applied a 16-17 railcard. (Was put down as failure to produce a railcard)

 

[Kilopylae]

The reason I hadn’t previously purchased a ticket for the train using the app is I prefer physical tickets over e/tickets (seems silly, I know). I only really purchase online if it’s a long journey as I don’t want to risk losing them.

Not silly at all - I'm much the same.

The National Rail Conditions of Travel are clear that "You must hold a valid Ticket or authority to travel before you board a train ... unless one of the following circumstances applies: ... a self-service Ticket machine is not in working order, or will not accept your preferred method of payment (card or cash)".

From what I’ve read I understand that you can be issued with a warning, fine or prosecution. Which of these is most likely for my case if you had to put it down to one?

What is most likely is that Northern will write to you stating that they intend to prosecute under the Regulation of Railways Act or the Railway By-laws, but ask for your side of the story. This is the same thing you will see happening on most other threads here, where people are able to persuade Northern to offer an out-of-court settlement, i.e. pay them to drop the matter without prosecution (this is not technically a fine in the legal sense, but it feels like one).

Your situation is a little different, as you have not actually done anything wrong. The rules are clear that if the ticket machine is broken (or won't take your preferred method of payment) you have the right to board the train. You then bought a ticket as soon as you could.

In essence, Northern has mistakenly written you up because they have mistaken you for a fare evader. So, the most likely scenario is that you will have to explain this to them in a letter, but in the end, you won't need to pay them a settlement or anything else.

Just for some additional information, I was issued a penalty fare 2 years ago when a friend purchased my ticket for me and applied a 16-17 railcard. (Was put down as failure to produce a railcard)

Experts can correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine this shouldn't affect the current situation.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

I wanted to get some advice on something that happened recently. I got to Lostock station and found the ticket machine was broken. There was no one at the ticket booth, and the train had just arrived, so I boarded.

I tried to buy a ticket via the Trainline app, but it wouldn’t let me as the train had already departed. When I got to Bolton, I purchased a ticket on the app for the earliest possible departure so I could scan it at the barriers and leave the station. Unfortunately the ticket barriers were down so my ticket was manually scanned. He then asked for my railcard, as I was getting it up he notices that my ticket was purchased 1 minute ago.

After this, I was issued a travel incident report. I’ve given all my details to Northern Rail.

Given what happened, what is the likely outcome? Has anyone experienced something similar and how did it get resolved?

Thanks in advance!

Can you get any proof the machine is or was broken? If so get it. Eg if you go to that station regularly get a picture of it broken asap.

 

[Kite159]

In essence, Northern has mistakenly written you up because they have mistaken you for a fare evader. So, the most likely scenario is that you will have to explain this to them in a letter, but in the end, you won't need to pay them a settlement or anything else

Think of it in the eyes of the member of staff when they see a ticket purchased within the last minute from one of the closest stations to Bolton, would that not raise alarm bells at potentially short faring & potentially only paying when challenged (by the barriers being in use).

 

[tatitiliti]

Hi all,

I wanted to get some advice on something that happened recently. I got to Lostock station and found the ticket machine was broken. There was no one at the ticket booth, and the train had just arrived, so I boarded.

I tried to buy a ticket via the Trainline app, but it wouldn’t let me as the train had already departed. When I got to Bolton, I purchased a ticket on the app for the earliest possible departure so I could scan it at the barriers and leave the station. Unfortunately the ticket barriers were down so my ticket was manually scanned. He then asked for my railcard, as I was getting it up he notices that my ticket was purchased 1 minute ago.

After this, I was issued a travel incident report. I’ve given all my details to Northern Rail.

Given what happened, what is the likely outcome? Has anyone experienced something similar and how did it get resolved?

Thanks in advance!

They will likely write to you asking for your version of events - however, as there were no available ticket purchase facilities at your departure station, you have not committed an offence and you will need to make this clear in your response. They should have an electronic record of all faulty ticket machines and the times they were faulty. Did you take a photo of the faulty ticket machine?

In future, never buy after you have boarded the train or have entered a compulsory ticket area under any circumstances, as it appears as deliberate fare evasion.